Acoustica - Software should be easy to use

For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

This forum is for use by the beta testing team. Team members can use it to discuss testing issues and help squash those elusive bugs.

NOTE: this forum is for beta software only. This is not a support forum for released software.

Moderators: Acoustica Chris, Acoustica Eric

User avatar
Acoustica Greg
Posts: 19555
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:30 pm
Location: California
Contact:

For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby Acoustica Greg » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:58 am

Hi,

Chibear, and others... with Mixcraft 8, rather than having to use lanes with different MIDI channels with your multi-out plugins like Kontakt, you can put your MIDI on full tracks, then route the MIDI from the tracks into the muli-out Plugin on different MIDI channels. Check it out:

routetotrackmx8.png
Route to track feature in Mixcraft 8
routetotrackmx8.png (112.84 KiB) Viewed 8629 times


This was a feature that Acoustica Chris conceived of after staring at too many lanes for too long.

Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

User avatar
Mark Bliss
Posts: 6522
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Out there

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby Mark Bliss » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:21 am

Diggin' it back up-

Still experimenting with both using lanes as well as Chris's solution- and learning.
But I have a related question, (and now that I think about it, this may actually be Dan's area.)

But if you have for example lanes of MIDI going into a VSTi on individual channels, and you adjust the clip gain (yeah, experimental question)......
If its not audio, you aren't really controlling the same thing. But it works (kind of, not well, not recommended)
Rhetorical question I suppose, but discovering it has an effect, and exploring the strange behavior it produces- What is that really doing? Is it sending a volume CC message to the VSTi?

Don't recommend trying it, causes weirdness. And as far as I can tell it doesn't do anything useful, I just have a need to understand what it IS doing. 8)
Stay in tune, Mark

Image

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

User avatar
Acoustica Greg
Posts: 19555
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:30 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby Acoustica Greg » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:49 pm

Hi,

Clip gain should have no effect in this case at all. Are you sure it was having an effect on the other track?

By clip gain, you mean clip volume automation right?

Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

User avatar
Mark Bliss
Posts: 6522
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Out there

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby Mark Bliss » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:42 pm

Yeah, I was experimenting with the gain envelope on the MIDI lanes, and to be honest, I expected no result since this would be a data track.
But it did effect volume. And when I toggled between lanes the result was erratic, with volume changing in unexpected ways.

Since then I adjusted the lanes back to unity, and adjusted the individual instrument levels and moved on to other testing.....

I will see if I can reproduce the phenomenon in the new build, and if so provide more info. As I understand it, that would be a bug.
Stay in tune, Mark

Image

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

User avatar
Acoustica Greg
Posts: 19555
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:30 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby Acoustica Greg » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:51 pm

Hi,

When you say gain envelope on MIDI lanes, do you mean the volume on the automation lane? Or the clip automation on the clips? Or something else? Or are you taking about something inside Kontakt or another plugin?

Changing those things has no effect on MIDI sent to another track with the Route To Track feature.

Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

freightgod
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:18 am

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby freightgod » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:53 pm

Just getting into Miroslav Philharmonik and this is great! I'm glad I didn't have to 'unlearn' using lanes instead.

freightgod
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:18 am

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby freightgod » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:15 pm

Well, this is a little disappointing. I would have expected that muting the "sending" midi track or adjusting the volume, etc. would have some sort of effect on the orchestral plugin, but no. Everything still has to be done within Philharmonik (in my case). Or so it seems?

User avatar
Mark Bliss
Posts: 6522
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Out there

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby Mark Bliss » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:39 am

freightgod wrote:Well, this is a little disappointing. I would have expected that muting the "sending" midi track or adjusting the volume, etc. would have some sort of effect on the orchestral plugin, but no. Everything still has to be done within Philharmonik (in my case). Or so it seems?


Don't be confused by what I am describing, I am purposely doing weird things to try and expose a quirk or bug. This is not the way to use it! :lol:
I'll come back to that after getting this sorted out.

Greg, I can confirm the new build (374) also does what I am trying to show, but alas, I am having trouble recording it. I couldn't get Fastone screen recorder to record sound previously, and in messing with that I updated my audio driver, and I think that fixed one problem I had recording, but now Fastone wont work at all in screen recorder mode, like before I migrated to Win10.
There's some kind of incompatibility issue here.

I'll try and expose this better tomorrow. 8)
Stay in tune, Mark

Image

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

freightgod
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:18 am

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby freightgod » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:31 am

Oh, no, Mark, I wasn't referring to your experiments. I was just surprised that actions on the original track had no effect on the sent midi. I guess this makes sense, and I haven't played around with control messages yet. I guess I'm a little surprised that muting a midi track has no effect, though...the midi signal is still transmitted to the destination. It's just a matter of me getting a grip on what's really going on. I watched Chibear's helpful vid on using lanes with multi-timbrals, and this new feature at least seems one step simpler than that.

mick
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:33 am

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby mick » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:48 am

A short basic video using a multi-out instrument such as Miroslav or other instead of Acoustica Piano (non-multitimbral) would be more appropiate and most appreciated. :D

User avatar
chibear
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:25 am
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby chibear » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:12 am

I've been playing with this a bit and I think for multitimbral use as in changing articulations lanes is still the best method.

However the new features in 8 open up the possibility of packing a whole brass or string section into a single instance of Kontakt and still have it readable and the instruments separately controllable. The single instance saves both some RAM and some CPU.
Win 7 Pro, 3930K, Gigabyte Ga-X79-UP4, Corsair AX860i, 64GB gSkill 1600 RAM, 5 X 120 GB Intel 520 SSD, 1T & 2T WD caviar black, EVGA nVidea 560, Asus Xonar Essence STX EWQL CCC, Kirk Hunter, Chris Hein, Omnisphere
Soundcloud YouTube

mick
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:33 am

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby mick » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:09 pm

Forget the requested video. Thank You. 8)

User avatar
Mark Bliss
Posts: 6522
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Out there

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby Mark Bliss » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:27 pm

chibear wrote:I've been playing with this a bit and I think for multitimbral use as in changing articulations lanes is still the best method.

However the new features in 8 open up the possibility of packing a whole brass or string section into a single instance of Kontakt and still have it readable and the instruments separately controllable. The single instance saves both some RAM and some CPU.


I'd have to say so far, each may have its use, still learning.

But back to trying to illustrate what I am trying to convey.
I am not sure if its a bug, if its something that shouldn't be allowed to occur, or exactly what to call it, you all can see what you think. :lol:
Either way, its just me, trying weird things to see what happens mostly.

Overview:
I have several (patches?) in Sampletank2, individually assigned to MIDI channel 1, 2 and 3 etc. respectively. And I have lanes correspondingly assigned to the specific channels.

Lane channels.jpg
Lane channels.jpg (131.22 KiB) Viewed 7827 times

Next, I adjusted the volume envelopes in the lanes, exaggeratedly in an effort to make what I am observing more obvious.
Lane one, channel one, the bass instrument is set full loud in Sampletank, and I set the lane envelope to reduce by 75%
Lane two is unaltered, and lane three has the lanes envelope reduced by 50%

Lane envelope reduce.jpg
Lane envelope reduce.jpg (85.26 KiB) Viewed 7827 times

Now this is where my first questions about this arise:
These lanes are sending MIDI data to Sampletank. Should the envelopes even work?
I actually expected not. But they do. How does this work?
Should this function be greyed out on MIDI lanes, or should this work properly?

While experimenting further, I found this odd behavior:
I created this video of me alternatively muting the lanes on and off while a 12 bar section loops.
As you will see/hear, sometimes when I mute/unmute another lane, (In the most obvious instance the third lane I think) the first lane (bass) changes volume, (I think switching to the envelope of the other lane).
Note also that as shown at the end, a volume shift also sometimes occurs when the loop ends/restarts.

Note: I set it up for the video to exaggerate the bass volume difference for illustrative purposes, but it seems to happen to all lanes at random times and patterns.

(And, no Dan, there are no secret lanes hiding under lanes. This time....... :lol: )
Yes folks that is possible. Mildly embarrassed by a "bug" submission that turned out to be that by mistake. More funny odd behavior.

Also, pardon the sound quality, apparently the only way I can get sound to record from this soundcard while screen recording is via the built in mic of my lappy. So it sounds bad and captures a lot of noise. Sorry for the poor quality.
But the level change should be apparent.
https://youtu.be/LX2JLHDhtHY
Stay in tune, Mark

Image

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

freightgod
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:18 am

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby freightgod » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:06 am

It's called sleep, Mark! :roll: I can see why you're a beta tester! I kid, I kid...he said at 5 a.m.

User avatar
chibear
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:25 am
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: For those of you using multi-out orchestral plugins...

Postby chibear » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:11 am

Tried to answer best I can......

Mark Bliss wrote:
chibear wrote:I've been playing with this a bit and I think for multitimbral use as in changing articulations lanes is still the best method.

However the new features in 8 open up the possibility of packing a whole brass or string section into a single instance of Kontakt and still have it readable and the instruments separately controllable. The single instance saves both some RAM and some CPU.


I'd have to say so far, each may have its use, still learning.

But back to trying to illustrate what I am trying to convey.
I am not sure if its a bug, if its something that shouldn't be allowed to occur, or exactly what to call it, you all can see what you think. :lol:
Either way, its just me, trying weird things to see what happens mostly.

Overview:
I have several (patches?) in Sampletank2, individually assigned to MIDI channel 1, 2 and 3 etc. respectively. And I have lanes correspondingly assigned to the specific channels.

you have this set up as a multi timbral.....all outputting to the same channel

Lane channels.jpg

Next, I adjusted the volume envelopes in the lanes, exaggeratedly in an effort to make what I am observing more obvious.
Lane one, channel one, the bass instrument is set full loud in Sampletank, and I set the lane envelope to reduce by 75%
Lane two is unaltered, and lane three has the lanes envelope reduced by 50%

Lane envelope reduce.jpg

Now this is where my first questions about this arise:
These lanes are sending MIDI data to Sampletank. Should the envelopes even work?
I actually expected not. But they do. How does this work?
Should this function be greyed out on MIDI lanes, or should this work properly?

this is some strangeness I have found from the beginning. If you want to use clip automation it is best to put it all in one lane. As set up you cannot balance the instruments. To do that you need to set up a multi channel instance so that each instruments outputs to a different stereo pair and then better to do your volume envelopes in the child tracks

While experimenting further, I found this odd behavior:
I created this video of me alternatively muting the lanes on and off while a 12 bar section loops.
As you will see/hear, sometimes when I mute/unmute another lane, (In the most obvious instance the third lane I think) the first lane (bass) changes volume, (I think switching to the envelope of the other lane).
Note also that as shown at the end, a volume shift also sometimes occurs when the loop ends/restarts.

Note: I set it up for the video to exaggerate the bass volume difference for illustrative purposes, but it seems to happen to all lanes at random times and patterns.

(And, no Dan, there are no secret lanes hiding under lanes. This time....... :lol: )
Yes folks that is possible. Mildly embarrassed by a "bug" submission that turned out to be that by mistake. More funny odd behavior.

Also, pardon the sound quality, apparently the only way I can get sound to record from this soundcard while screen recording is via the built in mic of my lappy. So it sounds bad and captures a lot of noise. Sorry for the poor quality.
But the level change should be apparent.
https://youtu.be/LX2JLHDhtHY
Win 7 Pro, 3930K, Gigabyte Ga-X79-UP4, Corsair AX860i, 64GB gSkill 1600 RAM, 5 X 120 GB Intel 520 SSD, 1T & 2T WD caviar black, EVGA nVidea 560, Asus Xonar Essence STX EWQL CCC, Kirk Hunter, Chris Hein, Omnisphere
Soundcloud YouTube


Return to “Mixcraft Beta Testing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests