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b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

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Anorax
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b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Anorax » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:29 pm

I'm getting a lot of the stuttering that's indicative of an overloaded buffer in ASIO in this build. This isn't a behavior that I saw in previous builds using ASIO (This is using the 64-bit Mixcraft 8 Pro Studio on Windows 10, with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 interface through the Focusrite ASIO driver).

My Mixcraft CPU usage is also very high when loading the "I can't go on this way" demo project. I'll check with the 32-bit version to see if there's a CPU load difference.

Has anyone else noticed performance issues on this build?

EDIT: Compared the 64-bit version with the 32-bit version for that example project. Mixcraft was giving a 44% CPU usage when using the 64-bit version, compared to a 14% CPU usage when running the same project on the 32-bit version. It appears that some CPU optimization was lost on build 370.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Acoustica Greg » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:53 pm

Hi,

That project has lots of 32-bit plugins, so it's not surprising that 32-bit Mixcraft would have better performance, although for me, I'm not seeing that much of a difference and it's not even peaking at 44%. Are you looking at the Mixcraft CPU reading or the System CPU reading? What is your latency reading in Sound Device preferences right now?

Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Anorax » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:01 pm

Through ASIO I was getting a latency of 2.87ms. Could not change the buffer size from 128, and the sample rate was 48k. 44.1k moved my latency closer to 3ms.

That was reported in Mixcraft. The peak of 44% was an anomaly I suppose; although when I compared Mixcraft's CPU reading to the Task Manager, mixcraft was reading 36% when the Task Manager was reading 25% (although the discrepancy was probably covered by the numerous Vst32BitWrapper.exe processes which were running anywhere from 0.3% to 1.5% each).

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Starship Krupa
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Starship Krupa » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:05 pm

Yes. Yes Yes Yes.

I, too am seeing more tearing in b370. I have been chasing it as a system issue, so I thank you for mentioning it here.

What happened was that just this weekend, I had a musician friend over who I wanted to show my latest songs, which I have been creating in Mixcraft 8.

The same songs that last week were playing just fine were now all plagued with audio farts. And these are works in progress, without the 4 tracks of live drums that will soon be on them. Just MIDI piano, MIDI drums, and 6 tracks of stacked vocals.

Doubling the latency did little to alleviate the problem.

I just shrugged it off as the usual deal of gear suddenly deciding to mess up when there is someone looking over your shoulder, but YES, audio performance degradation with b370. I didn't even consider that I had just installed b370.

If this can't be dialed out, I can't use Mixcraft on my computer any more.

Anorax, have you filed a Bugzilla report?
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

Anorax
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Anorax » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:08 pm

I have not, no.

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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Starship Krupa » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:27 pm

Anorax wrote:I have not, no.


One of us should. You go first, or if you would rather I....
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Acoustica Greg » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:43 pm

Hi,

You should both file bugs, or comment on the same bug. As always, the devil is in the details. 32-bit or 64-bit?, ASIO or WaveRT?, etc. Get it to happen, then quit and capture the log files.

If you install the old build in a different folder, can you get smooth playback right now?


Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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Starship Krupa
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Starship Krupa » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:57 pm

Okay, done. Will characterize further when I get a chance.

http://bugz.acoustica.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9408
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

Anorax
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Anorax » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:10 pm

Erik, it seems that there's a new build ready to test. I'm reinstalling my OS right now, so I can't test it at the moment, but maybe the new build doesn't have this stuttering/tearing issue?

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Acoustica Greg » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:51 am

Anorax wrote:Erik, it seems that there's a new build ready to test. I'm reinstalling my OS right now, so I can't test it at the moment, but maybe the new build doesn't have this stuttering/tearing issue?


Hi,

On my computer, using a Line 6 UX2 in ASIO mode with 64-bit Mixcraft and a latency of 2.90 MS, I can play the project without glitching. However, if I move my mouse around, and the mouse cursor changes, I do hear audio glitching at that low latency each time the mouse cursor changes. But this also happens in 64-bit Mixcraft 7 when my latency is set that low.

We did make some changes to audio buffering to try to avoid audio gaps.

Build 369 waited until audio buffers were 50% empty to start filling them.

Build 370 waited until audio buffers were 10% empty to start filling them.

Build 371 will wait until audio buffers are 25% empty to start filling them.


So, that means if you have a allotted a low amount of buffers, your computer will have to process audio to add to the buffers more often. If we erred in the opposite direction, and set it to 90% or something, then there's a chance the buffer would empty before your audio processing had anything to contribute, causing gaps in the audio and timing problems.

Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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Starship Krupa
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Starship Krupa » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:04 pm

Looks like we have a b372 already. I wonder if the number is still 25%.

Just getting back to it, will test my projects with b369 and b372.

Mixcraft b370 was basically unusable for me.

Before that I was able to get 4mS while tracking (with all plug-ins disabled except for one instance of Acoustica Reverb on the Cue Mix).
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Acoustica Greg » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:18 pm

Hi,

Yes, it's still 25%. Build 372 fixes a crash or two that were found.

Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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Starship Krupa
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Starship Krupa » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:44 am

Darn. First thing I tried doing was recording 3 takes of 2 audio tracks, and Mixcraft crashed on save. Fortunately, the .WAV files are saved at the end of every take, so they were there. The project file is also there but Mixcraft says it is corrupt.

I opened Mixcraft again and overwrote the log file, sorry.

Further testing to follow....
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

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Acoustica Joe
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Acoustica Joe » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:43 am

Ok - here is the test .zip

http://download.acoustica.com/temp/sndengines.zip

1. Requires b372 to be installed (64 bit)
2. The .zip file contains two sndengine.dll 's
3. You'll have to extract it and rename each one to 'sndengine.dll'
4. One is at 10% and one is at 50% fill rate.
5. Copy over your existing 372 dll into the 64 bit folder. (Maybe back up your existing one first)

Which one performs better and by how much? Is it noticeable?

Its possible that the buffer size is a red herring and isn't the issue you are experiencing.

Thanks for your help as soon as possible!

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: b370 - buffer overload "stutter" using ASIO

Postby Acoustica Greg » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:00 am

Anorax wrote:Erik, it seems that there's a new build ready to test. I'm reinstalling my OS right now, so I can't test it at the moment, but maybe the new build doesn't have this stuttering/tearing issue?


Hi,

Anorax, did you get a chance to test it? Is build 372 an improvement?

I tried the two different sound engines at 10% and 50% and I'm not hearing any difference.

Greg
Mixcraft 8 - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.


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