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Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

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dpaterson
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Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby dpaterson » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:15 am

Hi.

Is there any way to instruct Mixcraft 8 Pro Studio to ignore MIDI note velocity i.e. to simply record MIDI "note on" and MIDI "note off" with ("forcing") a predetermined MIDI note velocity e.g. 127 (the max.) for all notes played /recorded (on a MIDI keyboard).

If not: anybody got any idea as to how to accomplish this (maybe from the MIDI keyboard side perhaps)???

Regards,

Dale.

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D@n
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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby D@n » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:32 pm

Hi dpaterson,

No, it's not possible with Mixcraft. I have already made this suggestion and some members have told me that it has already been requested several times. :(

But until this function is implemented, there are two workarounds solutions :

1- In fact, it's usually possible to adjust the velocity curve with some MIDI keyboards. But we can't tell you how to do it, because each MIDI keyboard is different. You have to look in the manual or search on the Internet for this.

2- There are some MIDI plugins (free) that allow to modify incoming MIDI information, including velocity, among others. It is necessary to download/install and open the plugin as the first instrument (in the window where we can stack/layer several instruments).

Link for free MIDI plugins :

http://www.codefn42.com/veloscaler/index.html

http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/?p=midiCurve

Exemple with codefn42 veloscaler (open before Pianissimo) set to max velocity :

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But the disadvantage, with this method, is that you must place a veloscaler before each instrument for each track of instruments that you use. In addition, if you want to change, later, the velocity in the piano roll, you must remove (or uncheck/bypass) the plugin because it has precedence/priority on the velocity adjustment of the piano roll.

The best would be that the development team implement a function to adjust a global velocity curve and/or for each track instrument.
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AHornsby
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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby AHornsby » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:57 pm

dpaterson wrote:
If not: anybody got any idea as to how to accomplish this (maybe from the MIDI keyboard side perhaps)???

Regards,

Dale.


Hello. I never found it all that difficult to get the velocity where I wanted it; even after recording. Why would you want such a monotonous MIDI track anyway?

My new keyboard however, has velocity curves built into it and unless you have a Nektar GX 61, I and others, possibly, have no idea about how you can be advised.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby Ian Craig » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:21 pm

Alternatively to D@n's suggestions (thanks for the links D@n, great stuff),
in the track view (main) window, simply select any previously recorded track of midi notes by Left-Clicking it,
then
Right-Click > Midi Editing > Velocities
and choose the velocity of your choice, either from the drop down list or by typing the exact number value in
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dpaterson
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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby dpaterson » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:25 pm

Good morning all.

Thank you so much for the responses.

Ahornsby:

Why would you want such a monotonous MIDI track anyway?


It's actually for a MIDI to DMX light controller (on a seperate track from the music). That should explain all. While the DMX controller does recognise velocity to control brightness and various other functions: for my purposes I just need lights "on" and "off" i.e. at this stage I could not be bothered with varying degrees of brightness and want things like the strobe light speeds on maximum (speed also controlled by MIDI velocity). It all works great I have to say (as I noted previously: every day that I use Mixcraft I'm more and more impressed with it). This is just to make my life a bit easier is all (quicker to lay down the lighting tracks is all).

D@n:

That looks like exactly what I need. Thank you. My keyboard is an M-Audio Keystation 88. I suppose there is a way to accomplish this without plug-ins but don't want to complicate matters. As noted: everything is working perfectly. Just looking for a quick solution to program these light tracks.

When you add an instrument to a track in Mixcraft there is indeed a little velocity input block which defaults to 0 - 127. If you click on it you can edit these figures but the changes are not recognised or saved. Just mentioning it because it should be simple to add some code to actually recognise figures input here and basically they would override the actual note velocity for that instrument /track (and for all I know this does work and maybe I'm just doing something wrong when trying to edit these figures in Mixcraft).

Summary:

Now that you know what it's for it should explain all. Problem really is that while programming this light track I'm having to "bash" on my keyboard just to get max. velocity for the lights (and the corresponding brightness and motor speeds and strobe speeds). Also: certain of the MIDI to DMX channels have more than one function on the same DMX channel depending on the velocity of the MIDI note assigned to that channel and it ain't that easy, if not impossible, to ensure that for that particular note, when pressed, you get an exact velocity of, say, 83 every time you play the note.

Thanks again everyone. I reckon: problem solved (will try the plug-ins out late today).

Hmmmnnn... Just before posting this reply something came to mind. I just realised that on my keyboard: it doesn't matter HOW hard I "bash" a key I never reach 127 velocity. I get close but never maximum of 127. What could this mean (now that I'm thinking about it)??? I wonder if there is a setting somewhere in Mixcraft or on the keyboard that could "add" a certain amount of velocity to all notes played on the keyboard but over a range??? In other words: you don't want to lose quiet notes (low velocity) but you do want to sort of "boost" the range of the velocity. Maybe this is what you're both referring to as the "velocity curve"???

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

After posting the last paragraph above I did a quick search. Turns out this is a known issue with this keyboard (not being able to "hit" max. velocity) and one of the workarounds is indeed to use one of the plug-ins suggested. Looks like I may well have solved TWO problems at ONCE!!! LOL!!! Thanks again.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby AHornsby » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:30 am

dpaterson wrote:
It's actually for a MIDI to DMX light controller (on a seperate track from the music). That should explain all. While the DMX controller does recognise velocity to control brightness and various other functions: for my purposes I just need lights "on" and "off" i.e. at this stage I could not be bothered with varying degrees of brightness and want things like the strobe light speeds on maximum (speed also controlled by MIDI velocity). It all works great I have to say (as I noted previously: every day that I use Mixcraft I'm more and more impressed with it). This is just to make my life a bit easier is all (quicker to lay down the lighting tracks is all).


That DOES explain it and it's a good use for MIDI. Thanks. I was just thinking musical thoughts. What would you suggest as a good light bar system to use on stage?

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby dpaterson » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:00 am

Hello again.

Well: this is my very first foray into lighting so I'm not sure if I'm the person to give advice on the matter.

I can, however, vouch for the MIDI to DMX controller i.e. it's called a "Decabox" from a company called Engineering Solutions Inc. Works like an absolute charm. Plugged it in, connected a DMX lighting fixture, set the MIDI channel, and worked first time no problem at all. And by simply changing the firmware it's possible to control DMX via RS232 (serial) or use it with other DMX lighting software. Very well thought out product (in my humble opinion anyway).

As for lights: I'm just testing with 2 x "Max Partybar" (by Tronios Sound and Light) and 2 x "Hybrid HSS 12.4" fixtures. Nothing fancy at all although they will work for a very small stage type of setup (one or two man show type of thing). "Chauvet" seems to be a sort of "industry standard" (so far as I can tell anyway).

But I'll tell you: you guys are fantastic. I never posted this earlier today (had to rush out to a meeting). Those plug-ins (have not tested yet but getting there shortly) have solved yet another issue that I never even thought of (aside from my keyboard issue). It never occurred to me that I would have a BIG problem controlling some of the DMX parameters (and for the record my last post was not quite accurate i.e. the MIDI to DMX controller simply maps MIDI to DMX and the lighting fixtures themselves are what dictate the DMX parameters). Here's what I'm referring to as an example: DMX channel 6, which, in my setup, is controlled by MIDI note number 68, has at least three parameters which are MIDI velocity dependant (there's actually five but giving an example here is all). Velocity 60-119 control the "static mode", velocity 180-230 control the "jump change mode", and velocity 180-239 control the "gradual change mode". These modes all have many different settings depending on the MIDI note velocity. Point is: it would have been impossible (well: extremely difficult anyway) to address these individual parameters accurately without those plug-ins (short of having to edit the velocity of every single MIDI note number 68!!! Never thought of that until this morning!!! LOL!!! Anyway. All good.

If anybody is interested: once I've got this all set up I'll upload a little video to YouTube to demonstrate my handywork!!! LOL!!! (It may or may not be me playing though i.e. I've spent way too much time now mucking about with useless amp. sims. video software, and lights, and "you name it" as opposed to getting my playing back up to speed as it's been a few years. And I'll tell you: the only software I'm NOT having issues with is indeed Mixcraft thank goodness!!! Don't even TALK to me about amp. sims.!!! LOL!!!).

Thanks again for all.

Regards,

Dale.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby mick » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:51 am

CTRL + ALT + K brings up the qwerty keyboard input and it has a feature to set the velocity so you can achieve a fixed value with your computer keyboard instead of a midi keyboard. Just a thought if it helps somewhat but if you use midi channels its back to a keyboard with fixed values, the Nektar keyboards have 3 fixed velocity values of 127 - 100 - 64.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby AHornsby » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 pm

dpaterson wrote:If anybody is interested: once I've got this all set up I'll upload a little video to YouTube to demonstrate my handywork!!! LOL!!! (


Yeah, heck yeah. Especially with Mixcraft in the mix.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby dpaterson » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:11 am

Hello again (all).

Hmmmnnnn...

Coming up with some interesting things here!!! LOL!!!

Well firstly: what I set out to accomplish is indeed working thanks to those plug-ins. Thanks again.

Interesting note (no pun intended) however: in spite of the plug-ins (the velocity plug-ins) Mixcraft still records the ACTUAL velocity from the input (keyboard). When played back (fortunately) the output is via the plug-ins (otherwise this would not work obviously). Which begs a question: any way to route the OUTPUT of the originally recorded MIDI track to ANOTHER MIDI track WITH the OUTPUT velocity as specified by the plug-ins on the originally recorded MIDI track (I'll let you read that a few times hoping it will make sense!!! LOL!!!). In other words: while recording the ORIGINAL MIDI track then Mixcraft is recording ANOTHER MIDI track but taking it's input from the ORIGINAL MIDI track as opposed to they input device (keyboard). If this is possible it would then eliminate the need to use the plug-in upon playback (you would simply delete the ORIGINAL MIDI track where the plug-in was used and playback the newly recorded MIDI track).

And now I have another small problem:

I guess it stands to reason that there will be a certain amount of latency in this system (what with USB, MIDI and DMX cables, various items of hardware). I'm noticing latency (albeit ALMOST imperceptible but unfortunately I'm a perfectionist!!! LOL!!!) when playing back the lighting MIDI track. In other words: there is a slight delay between whatever I've programmed and the lights (I THINK that the programming is slightly ahead of the lights). Now this can be fixed by simply editing the MIDI track i.e. changing offsets but this can only be done after the fact (which is alright I suppose really). Only thing I'm finding a little strange is that this delay is not REALLY evident when actually laying down the tracks i.e. when I'm actually hitting the keys to trigger the lights (recording at the same time) things seem to be "spot on" (again: no pun intended). It's only when the track is played back (obviously with a reference MIDI track playing back also such reference MIDI track containing a VST instrument like a drum beat for example) that this slight delay is evident.

Any thoughts???

I just had one (as yet untested):

I wonder if it would make a difference to the recording / timing if the hardware was installed / connected differently??? In other words: right now the keyboard and MIDI to DMX controller are on seperate MIDI interfaces. I'm wondering if the problem could be solved by daisy chaining in this order: keyboard to MIDI in on the MIDI to DMX controller, MIDI out of the MIDI to DMX controller to MIDI in of the ASIO sound card, and then MIDI out of the ASIO sound card into the PC (Mixcraft). Then upon playback the whole darn thing has to reconfigured i.e. MIDI out from the PC (Mixcraft) to MIDI in of the MIDI to DMX controller (as there is only on MIDI in port on the controller).

Gonna drive me nuts this ...

Regards,

Dale.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby davefk » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:49 am



D@n, thanks for the link that is useful software.
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dpaterson
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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby dpaterson » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:05 am

Hello again.

Nah. I think it's "just me" really. It's getting dark here now so it's much easier to see the lighting fixtures. If there is ANY latency then it's actually not in the system I don't think. It's more a function of the lighting fixtures themselves i.e. no light is "instant on" or "instant off' let's face it. It may take a fraction of second to go from "off" to "full on" and that appears to be what I'm perceiving at latency. Worst case scenario: it would require an offset (left in my case left) of no more than a 1/32 or a 1/64 note for the lighting fixture to be at it's brightest "right on the beat".

Edit:

Matter of fact: the PERCEIVED latency give all a slight "live" feel really. And just noticed it would SURE help if I could hit the notes (being recorded) that trigger the lighting fixtures exactly on time every time. I'm testing this out with an audio track but with MIDI tracks it should be a cinch with good 'ol "Quantize"!!! LOL!!!

Anyway: interesting stuff this (and I can tell ya that Mixcraft is performing flawlessly in this excercise).

Regards,

Dale.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby Mark Bliss » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:21 am

I find that LED's light up noticeably and dramatically quicker than other sources.
Stay in tune, Mark

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dpaterson
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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby dpaterson » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:46 am

Hi Mark.

Agreed. I think it's just me being "full of it" to be honest. And it doesn't help sitting an entire day watching the lights flash either I'll tell you!!!

Nah. All good. Going to connect the rest of them up soon and put together a little "show" with Mixcraft Have to say: I'm pretty happy with the way this turned out.

Thanks again all for the input and plug-ins (there's still one or two issues that I raised in an earlier thread that I think are interesting though). Solved a few issues for me (although, after some mucking about, turns out I may be one of the lucky ones with my M-Audio Keystation 88 i.e. I am getting the full velocity range after a factory reset but would never have picked up the problem were it not for this thread).

Regards,

Dale.

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Re: Ignore / Force MIDI Note Velocity

Postby dpaterson » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:59 pm

Hello again.

It's been a while.

Velocity (again)!!! LOL!!!

In spite of my post above: turns out I too am having a problem with the velocities being sent by my keyboard. To begin with there is definitely a notable difference between (let's call it) the "average velocity" being sent by the black keys and white keys. And in order for me to attain a velocity of 127 I would literally have to bang (hard) a note. I'm still busy doing my lighting tracks (no problem here because I can simply force the velocities in Mixcraft or keep the plugin on the MIDI track) (and, as promised, will upload a video of all of this stuff being controlled from Mixcraft) but this is now affecting my playing and recording. Now: thanks to this thread there are any number of different plugins that can be used to create a velocity curve (or even force any or all notes to a certain velocity). The problem is this though: with these plugins the AUDIO output is clearly and audibly increased by the settings of these plugins BUT the actual velocities that are being forced by these plugins are not recorded. Is there any way to do this??? Another way to explain: if I add one of the plugins that force all notes to a velocity of 127 then the AUDIO output is clearly and audibly increased (based on the forced velocity of 127) but the ACTUAL MIDI notes being recorded by Mixcraft are still recorded at the ACTUAL velocity being sent by the keyboard to Mixcraft.

I suppose (this is a P.S.) what I'm asking is this: is there any way to reroute the OUTPUT of a MIDI track to the INPUT of a second MIDI track but the second MIDI track must record exactly what the OUTPUT is of the first MIDI track and NOT the INPUT of the first MIDI track (try saying that a few times in quick succession!!!). This is the only way I could think to do it (unless I'm missing something in Mixcraft). Put another way (and as a simple example): first MIDI track in would record the actual velocities from the keyboard. Then a velocity plugin in added to this track and forces all notes to 127. Then second MIDI track would then record all the notes coming from the first MIDI track BUT all would have velocity of 127. One could then discard the first MIDI track (and so on and so forth).

Regards,

Dale.


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