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Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

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BillW
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Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby BillW » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:22 pm

I read a tip today that intrigued me. The idea was to apply reverb only to a subset of a track's full frequency range. I won't get into why I think this would be good except in thinking of my 3 horn tracks and trying to get depth and separation

Anyway, the tip said nothing about how to do that. I think it likely means a duplicate track. So in part I'm thinking out loud here. Let's say I eq'd a track and I'm happy with how it sounds by itself and in the mix

Then I apply reverb and I like it better but it dulls the highs a bit too much.

So applying the tip, I'd create a dup of the track. Copy 1 has everything but I eliminate the high frequencies. I apply reverb to it. Track 2 has only the high frequencies and I leave it dry.

Does that even make sense? Or is there some fancier reverb plugins that allow you to specify what frequency range(s) it applies to?
Mixcraft 8 Pro (32bit) runs fine on a Toshiba Satellite C55-B laptop with a wimpy Celeron N2830 (dual core). Now using 64bit on a "less wimpy" Dell 660S/Dual Core Pentium/8GB RAM.

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Ian Craig
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby Ian Craig » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:44 pm

Hi,

have a look at this one I use https://www.meldaproduction.com/MConvolutionMB

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Anorax
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby Anorax » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:39 pm

Don't forget you can also use send tracks. I've used parallel sends before on plenty of instruments - just make a send, grab a filter, cut out the frequency ranges you don't want to mess with, then add whatever effects you want after the filter. Add a new send, rinse, and repeat. Can really lead to some rather interesting sounds.

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AHornsby
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby AHornsby » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:25 am

It makes sense to me. Duping the track as flac and EQ'ing out those frequencies you don't want to add reverb to is probably the most straightforward way to do it.

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BillW
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby BillW » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:36 am

Thanks for the responses. I really need to learn how to efficiently use send tracks. I tried that on my last project but I think I misunderstood it too much.

It still leaves the original track, right? And I guess you can blend the original with the send.

But in this case, I don't want the original at all. I want one track with a subset of the frequency spectrum and another with the rest. In math terms, they are complimentary sets. No overlap of frequencies. So I'm not sure how a send works in that case.

But maybe the suggestion on parallel tracks/ sends implies two sends - the first one would have only "Set A" frequencies and the other with only "Set B" (where the two sets are compliments and the frequencies are filtered in each send track) -

Then original track sends 100% of its signal to each so there is nothing left of it to hear. Just the two sends.

I'll try that - and also look at the link Ian provided - later.
Mixcraft 8 Pro (32bit) runs fine on a Toshiba Satellite C55-B laptop with a wimpy Celeron N2830 (dual core). Now using 64bit on a "less wimpy" Dell 660S/Dual Core Pentium/8GB RAM.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby Mark Bliss » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:05 am

Wow, now I am confused! :roll:

Bill, I gotta think your overthinking this. Surprise! 8)
I don't know where this duplicating tracks and stuff came from, but assuming I am not misunderstanding the intent- its just not that complicated.

Common practice is to either use a reverb with filters built in, or place them before the reverb. For me, always on a send bus.

I always start a mix from my template, which contains two reverb sends already set up. One short reverb (room) and one long reverb (plate). Each of them has an EQ before it where I nearly always use a HPF to kill low frequencies going into the verb and nearly as often, a LPF to reduce the high frequency content going into the verb. As a result, you get a cleaner, less muddy and less "hissy" or "washy" verb that you simply blend back in to the mix.

Its far harder to describe than it is to set up and use.

I reckon I need to whup up a new tutorial, as there has been many related questions here lately....... :D
Last edited by Mark Bliss on Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rolling Estonian
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby Rolling Estonian » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:22 am

Mark Bliss wrote:I reckon I need to whup up a new tutorial, as there has been many related questions here lately....... :D


Always on the lookout for any tutorials from you Mr. B!

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BillW
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby BillW » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:55 pm

Yes - a tutorial would be nice.

Like my issue with compression - which I had a difficult time explaining because I did't really know how - I am very likely overthinking.

I want reverb on just part of the spectrum. but I don't want to eliminate the other parts that don't have reverb.

Nor do I think I want to mix the track with the full spectrum with no reverb with the other two parts (spectrum set A with verb, spectrum set B without). I don't want the raw track in other words. (I think -since I haven't tried it yet I don't know - maybe it would sound better).

Yes - what your saying make sense - and I think it means (as I suspect) that I don't really understand send tracks.

Very often I've found that my confusion comes from not understanding something 2 steps before my question - and the difficulty in me understanding the responses to my questions comes from the kind people here assuming I understand something you consider basic (because, well, it probably IS basic and I'm lower than basic.)
Mixcraft 8 Pro (32bit) runs fine on a Toshiba Satellite C55-B laptop with a wimpy Celeron N2830 (dual core). Now using 64bit on a "less wimpy" Dell 660S/Dual Core Pentium/8GB RAM.

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GovernmentMule
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby GovernmentMule » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:53 pm

Is this what you are looking for?

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_MB7Mixer/

"Blue Cat's MB-7 Mixer is a unique plug-in that splits the signal into several frequency bands and lets you mix and process them as if they were separate tracks.

Each band proposes controls that can be found on a mixing console, and more: bypass, mute or solo each band separately to isolate frequencies you want to work on, adjust the gain, the "stereoness" and the position in the stereo field. When manipulating the stereo image, a master mono switch also lets you check mono compatibility.

The plug-in can also operate as a multiband VST, VST3 and Audio Unit host: you can process each band independently with your favorite VST, VST3 or Audio Unit plug-ins! Up to four plug-ins can be loaded on each band, pre or post fader. Latency compensation, presets management, undo/redo integration, and individual plug-in bypass are included for optimal operation. "

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AHornsby
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby AHornsby » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:59 pm

Mark Bliss wrote:Wow, now I am confused! :roll:

Bill, I gotta think your overthinking this. Surprise! 8)
I don't know where this duplicating tracks and stuff came from, but assuming I am not misunderstanding the intent- its just not that complicated.


I also would like to know about setting up those send tracks with 'filtered' reverb. Coming from a wave editor environment, that was the only way I knew how to achieve that result.

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BillW
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby BillW » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:46 pm

Hey Gov -
I recall seeing that now that you mention it. A bit pricey for my use however, but I think it's exactly what the author of the tip I read (see the OP) had in mind. But thanks for the link.

It's always nice to know I'm not incredibly clueless - I know what I want and why, just not how to express it.

(Like the Bass Tracker plugin that someone suggested to solve my wanting to RAISE the level of parts of a track that are too soft.)
Mixcraft 8 Pro (32bit) runs fine on a Toshiba Satellite C55-B laptop with a wimpy Celeron N2830 (dual core). Now using 64bit on a "less wimpy" Dell 660S/Dual Core Pentium/8GB RAM.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby Mark Bliss » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:07 pm

Well, now I don't know. Not reading/seeing the referred to tip leaves me guessing.
I highly doubt that the complexity of that Bluecat plug in is what Bill is seeking, but I could be wrong. To me, it looks interesting, but I am betting I could spend hours accomplishing nothing there. :roll:
Simple is good. If I discovered I really needed that, I might go hit some golf balls instead.

I'd stick to the basics first. Tried and true, good old fashioned mix desk technique emulation will take you far IMO.
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BillW
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby BillW » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:30 am

Mark -
I agree 100%. And $129 is way too expensive for a capability that 1) can probably be done simpler and 2) I'm not sure I'm sophisticated enough to truly use effectively (that is, it could be a black hole of experimentation and kidding myself that I know what I'm doing

Simple is VERY good.

And speaking of simple, I'm simply too ignorant (in the literal sense) to be able to even explain what I'm after apparently. Thanks for the help though, everyone.
Mixcraft 8 Pro (32bit) runs fine on a Toshiba Satellite C55-B laptop with a wimpy Celeron N2830 (dual core). Now using 64bit on a "less wimpy" Dell 660S/Dual Core Pentium/8GB RAM.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby Mark Bliss » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:30 pm

Well again, not sure what the tip was you read that led us here. But I am going to roll with my impression based on your description.
Better use of reverbs and delay for space and depth.

And maybe instead of the usual approach, lets try something in stages. There's good info already around, lets explore some of that.

This set of tips and suggestions might be a good place to start, then we can move on?
http://behindthespeakers.com/use-reverb-like-a-pro/
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BillW
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Re: Applying an effect to only a subset of the spectrum

Postby BillW » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:46 pm

As always, I appreciate your patience. All of you.

I'm going to try to break down my confusion in parts. But before that, the tip I read comes from a small ebook called Creating Depth in the Mix by Thomas Juth. To lengthy to quote here but in brief:

Never send full frequency to the reverb (generally cut below 200 and above 10k)

This sounds a bit like Mark's:
I always start a mix from my template, which contains two reverb sends already set up. One short reverb (room) and one long reverb (plate). Each of them has an EQ before it where I nearly always use a HPF to kill low frequencies going into the verb and nearly as often, a LPF to reduce the high frequency content going into the verb. As a result, you get a cleaner, less muddy and less "hissy" or "washy" verb that you simply blend back in to the mix.

But I don't think that means "don't have any low or high frequencies in your original track. Just don't have any at those frequencies getting "reverbed".

OK - so some basic questions to start:
1. "Each has an EQ before it..." Where? In the main track getting sent, or - as I think you mean - in each send track? And if there - then the "it" in "Each has an EQ before it" means before the reverb, not before the send track, right?

2. How much of the track do you send? Even the YouTube Mixcraft Send Track video doesn't address this. The knob goes from 0 to 200. 200 what? Not percent I hope.

3. So 0 on the knob is nothing and 200 is all. OK - so let's say I set it 100. Half the track goes to the send. What does that mean? Half of what? Or "100" goes to the send. 100 what? And what happens to the other 100 - or the other half?

4. When I send, I assume it takes into account any FX in the track being sent - right?

OK - so let's take my trombone track. I decide to EQ it to get a nice sound. I use AC EQ for simplicity - and it already has <32 and 63 and >16K pulled down. The other bars are at levels I can't tell (it doesn't give me the value when I adjust ) but 125 is 0, 250 and 500 are slightly above, 2K and 2K at 0, 4K and 8K slightly below.

I decide that I'll use reverb, but now I'll put it in the send track. I choose to be simple and use the AC reverb - large room. I want to cut the low and high - so in the send track, I put AC EQ and pull down the <32, the 63. the 125, the 8K and the >16K bars. I leave the middle ones at 0dB.

I then set the send knob to 100. Or as close as I can get (I don't see a place to type in a value, and it's real tough to use a mouse to get it exactly at 100 - so I get it at 98 or 104 or something)

I like how it sounds - but what do I have? I have a mix of my original track and the send track, right?
So do I still have some sound at 125 and 8K - since they are not pulled down on the original track (but they are on the send?) If I set the send to 200, then I'd NOT have those frequencies? And at 0, the EQ and reverb on the send do nothing?

I can clearly hear the difference when I go from send 0 to send 100 to send 200 - I just want to be sure I understand what is happening.
Mixcraft 8 Pro (32bit) runs fine on a Toshiba Satellite C55-B laptop with a wimpy Celeron N2830 (dual core). Now using 64bit on a "less wimpy" Dell 660S/Dual Core Pentium/8GB RAM.

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