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Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:17 am
by starise
I think I seen this elsewhere using Melodyne or the technology behind it. A mono audio track, say a bass can be dragged into a midi track. Melodyne or similar recognizes the pitch and converts it to a midi which can the drive a virtual instrument.
Is this possible in Mixcraft?

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:37 am
by Acoustica Greg
Hi,

Mixcraft doesn't have that option, and Melodyne Essentials, which comes with Mixcraft 8 Pro Studio also doesn't have that feature. You would have to upgrade Melodyne to get the option to "Save Audio Notes To MIDI." If you scroll down on this page, you can see what you get with the various editions of Melodyne: http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/editions-and-technical-matters

You can't really convert audio to MIDI. The software would have to analyze the audio and then attempt to interpret the audio data as MIDI tracks. I'm not sure what kind of result you would get from this. The quality of the output would probably vary from song to song.


Greg

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:32 pm
by dpaterson
Hello.

Greg has summed up the Mixcraft side of things.

As somebody who has Melodyne Studio (and upgraded to Studio for this very purpose): it's not as easy as simply dragging an audio track onto a MIDI track (wish it were) not by any stretch of the imagination. I've seen some of those YouTube videos on this. There's one in particular where the chap extracts MIDI from an audio jingle. No problem. Except there was only ONE single (and simple) instrument (keyboard) in the audio track. But when you start working with audio that has multiple instruments and you have to coax Melodyne into finding the notes well it can become a new career (it's not as automatic as some videos on YouTube would have you believe)!!! LOL!!! If you have a bass (audio) track and that's the only instrument well then no problem. Works alright for drums too but again: simple if it's just an (audio) drum track but not so simple if you're trying to pull apart a mix. Can be done but as I say: loads of patience and a LOT of time required.

Regards,

Dale.

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:37 pm
by Ian Craig
Hi Dale,
you beat me to it :)
(I was about to post)
"As Greg suggests the results are variable, but interesting. The full version of Melodyne (which I acquired through through 2 half price upgrades - check places like PluginBoutique.com for cut price deals on software) enables audio to be polyphonically pulled apart and the results can be converted to midi tracks, however those midi tracks work best as a way of analysing included notes that can be then used to understand what note structures are in the tracks before recording (or pencilling-in notes more precisely on the piano roll) into new tracks, as the midi it creates includes interpretations of every piece of hum or background noise as a note, so it gets very complicated (unless you spend years adapting to it's workflow methods) to use it directly for that purpose if deconstructing multi-note layerings (it also takes a long time to process layered material, whereas single note, monophinc material can be analysed quickly). I think it is early days for this kind of software, in 10 years it should be commonplace and work a lot more completely and cheaply. Hopefully anyway."

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:56 pm
by Acoustica Greg
Hi,

It's a really complex problem for an algorithm to solve, unless you're starting with something very simple.

Greg

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:42 am
by starise
Thank you gentlemen,

I confess to not knowing the inner working of this technology called ARA I think? Even though I own an older copy of Melodyne Studio and have done similar in another daw.

My main use for it has been to replace a bad bass track in mono which it seemed to work well for. I have an acoustic bass that is meh. Not the best. I have used ARA to convert this to midi and replace that bass with a sampled one. Worked really well for that.If the bass is off a few cents in tuning, the software puts it to the closest range.

Also works well to copy say a vocal track, convert it to midi and use a synth to accentuate the main vocal track. As you say. Works best with mono material. It's been awhile since I have needed or wanted to do that and I admit to not really know what I was doing when I did it :oops: It clears up any timing issues if you want some kind of a ghost effect or synth since it's basically a copy of the main track in midi form. Melodyne keep sending me upgrade info and I suppose it's time I upgrade with them. My copy of their software is probably 5 years old.

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:03 pm
by lingyai
Hi there, I've used Melodyne a lot for this purpose, i.e. not as a magic wand over a full track, but rather, for example, to convert an audio bassline to midi, and then use the midi to drive a better-sounding VSTi.

I did this a lot in Sonar Platinum with Melodyne Editor 2, and then more recently Melodyne Studio 4. It's not perfect but worked quite well (with some tweaking) with certain material.

Unfortunately, when I use Melodyne Studio's Export as Midi command within Mixcraft (saving the midi file to a folder) and then drag that midi file into Mixcraft, the tempo is way, way wrong. Like around half of what it should be, i.e. the midi file, viewed on the timeline, is around twice as long as the underlying audio.

I just dusted off my old Sonar and it works fine there, but not in Mixcraft. I can't see what I'm doing wrong , Can anyone advise?

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:32 pm
by starise
I found several plugins that do this online. Most are priced right up there with Melodyne which does a lot more. If it were me I would probably upgrade the included Melodyne.
I did find this.
https://www.widisoft.com/english/widi-a ... i-vst.html

I know absolutely nothing about it. Appears to make a conversion from pre-recorded audio. IOW no real time conversion from it. Good luck.

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:57 pm
by lingyai
starise wrote:I found several plugins that do this online. Most are priced right up there with Melodyne which does a lot more. If it were me I would probably upgrade the included Melodyne.
I did find this.
https://www.widisoft.com/english/widi-a ... i-vst.html

I know absolutely nothing about it. Appears to make a conversion from pre-recorded audio. IOW no real time conversion from it. Good luck.


Thanks, I will investigate this , although having paid decent money for Melodyne Studio 4 (this *is* an upgrade from the included Melodyne, it's the flasghip version) I'd love to get it to work, while avoiding payig for something else. Mixcraft's Melodyne inetegration was a big factor in me choosing it as my main DAW.

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:32 pm
by starise
I don't blame you.
You might want to investigate the Melodyne forum. It seems like the issue is a timing issue with relation to Melodyne integration into Mixcraft. ARA just underwent a revision or update. That probably doesn't cover your issue with version 3 but it might somehow be affecting it.
I only use Melodyne now to tune vocals so I'm not much help here. Maybe someone else can chime in to help that knows more about it.

If I couldn't get help, the first thing I would do is look at the timing settings in both programs, to make sure everything is set the same. If the time is twice as slow that sounds like a setting is off somewhere...anyways good luck. I'll leave this to someone who might know more about it.

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:56 pm
by lingyai
Celemony closed the Melodyne forum around the time Meldoyne 4 came out, if i recall correctly.

There seems to be something basic amiss -- either on oversight on my part, or a bug. The settings are all as they should be. In a project which has always had a steady tempo of 70 bpm, I drop in a 70 bpm audio loop, it plays fine, I open it in the Melodyne section of the Sound tab, where it displays a tempo of 70 bpm, and is manuplable, it plays right there too, so far so good; then I use Melodyne's command to save as midi to my desktop; but when I then drag that midi file into Mixcraft, kablooey, it's roughly twice the length / speed it should be.

Am I missing someting basic about importing midi files into Mixcraft? Can anyone else replicate this? Greg, can someone at Mixcraft try please?

dpaterson, Ian, in your posts above, it sounds like you've managed this, can you offer any advice?

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:25 pm
by cbeattyjr
I've never solved this either. Would love a solution!

Re: Does Mixcraft Have Audio To Midi conversion?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:44 pm
by Ian Craig
lingyai wrote:Unfortunately, when I use Melodyne Studio's Export as Midi command within Mixcraft (saving the midi file to a folder) and then drag that midi file into Mixcraft, the tempo is way, way wrong. Like around half of what it should be, i.e. the midi file, viewed on the timeline, is around twice as long as the underlying audio.

I just dusted off my old Sonar and it works fine there, but not in Mixcraft. I can't see what I'm doing wrong , Can anyone advise?


Hello everyone,
The problem is this. In Melodyne studio (the standalone version) there are 2 different export to midi commands. One is export to midi, the other is export tempo map. I am guessing that the ARA integration in Sonar includes the Tempo Map as it clearly (and rather annoyingly) isn't in the Mixcraft integration. This means that manual alignment has to be done (if the material is long enough using the CTRL+Drag command on the clip should produce a pretty accurate alignment, though it doesn't seem to work on short clips i.e. less than 1 minute).