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Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Support and feedback for Acoustica's Mixcraft audio mixing software.

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jlouvar
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby jlouvar » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:06 pm

CazaroTaro wrote:This is a topic where science may help.

A few years ago, I generated two WAV audio files at 44.1 kHz sample rate using Audacity. I used these audio files to assess various equalizer VSTs in Mixcraft. The audio files are:

1. White noise
2 A series of sine tones at 50, 100, 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 2000, 3000 4000, 5000, 6000, 8000, 10000, 12000, 14000, and 16000 Hz

I loaded these audio files into Mixcraft 8 build 418 (64 bit), and a copy of Ableton Live 9 Lite version 9.7 (32 bit). I put a copy of SPAN on the Master bus. NO other VSTs of any variety were present.

The white noise file should generate basically a flat line in SPAN (slope set to 0 in the spectrum mode editor) and the peaks of the sine tones should also form a flat line in SPAN for the same settings. The results are shown in the graphics below.

Mixcraft 8 and Ableton Live 9 Lite generated the same SPAN graphs. Both showed slight non-flat behavior, but identical slight non-flat behavior.

Conclusion: The audio engine performance of Mixcraft 8 and Ableton Live 9 is identical.

I will hypothesize that all DAWs will produce the same result with the same audio test files and same test method. I will leave it to others to test their DAWs. The white noise file is easy to generate with Audacity. The multi sine tone file is more difficult to produce, and is attached in a zip file.

The sound processing VSTs applied between the raw audio and the output of the Master bus are the most likely sources of audible differences between identical audio sources.


Excellent, thanks for sharing this. :)
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

mick
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby mick » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:59 pm

I think the time has come to reflect over the years and take a look at how midi has developed in Mixcraft since it was first introduced. It hasn't! It's about the same apart from the step section for drums. With Mixcraft midi development being established to be dead in the water for some time I've been learning Cubase for the same period. I'm already pretty much familiar with Samplitude Music Studio, its close to the pro version in execution but the pro features I don't need.
I'm not sitting around for a year for the next Mx because there appears to be no point based on the years gone by, I think the devs are taking Mixcraft down the Ableton, loop, edm road. Nothing wrong with that if that's where the business is so I'll say good luck with that Acoustica the PP is a killer feature. As a midi guy I have to move on. :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?

mixyguy2
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby mixyguy2 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:32 pm

Drafter wrote:Now to be fair, Samplitude Pro X3 does have 4 band parametric EQ per channel where Mixcraft only has 3 bands at predetermined frequency centers. So you have more control in critically shaping your tone in Samplitude.

Gee I wonder if that could make a diff :roll:

Mixcraft is an awesome beginner DAW
What utter nonsense (i.e. the "beginner" crack). It's a great DAW, period.

Maybe calling it "Pro Studio" is a bit ambitious, considering that's it's lacking even in basic things found in most other DAW's.
Like.....

But again, I don't suspect Acoustica is really trying to tap the market space where Samplitude or Pro Tools lives.
You mean insanely overpriced and/or incredibly unfriendly software? Thank God for small favors.

This is much ado about nothing. Try taking the exact same recording and using the exact same settings using the exact same plugins and compare. I did. No difference. Believe what you want but IMO none of this holds up at all. Mixcraft is not only full-featured and far easier to use than Samplitude (and every other DAW I tried) but it's "audio engine" is for all intents and purposes the same. Nothing to see here. Carrying on.

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jlouvar
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby jlouvar » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:09 pm

Hi mixguy2

Before mick edited his post above, he stated that he has deleted Mixcraft from his computer and moved on, so I don’t expect mick will be posting here anymore... unless he’s just planning on trolling now. :wink:
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

Drafter
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby Drafter » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:12 am

mixyguy2 wrote:
Drafter wrote:Now to be fair, Samplitude Pro X3 does have 4 band parametric EQ per channel where Mixcraft only has 3 bands at predetermined frequency centers. So you have more control in critically shaping your tone in Samplitude.

Gee I wonder if that could make a diff :roll:

Ok smart guy...

Mixcraft is an awesome beginner DAW
What utter nonsense (i.e. the "beginner" crack). It's a great DAW, period.

Calling someone else's opinion "utter nonsense" tells me that you don't respect opinions that are unlike your own. Get over yourself dude.

Maybe calling it "Pro Studio" is a bit ambitious, considering that's it's lacking even in basic things found in most other DAW's.
Like.....

How about VCA faders, metering that is actually accurate and calibrated to modern studio standards, the ability to customize and resize the display, how about the ability to open multiple projects simultaneously, extensive audio editing, believe me there is a lot more.

But again, I don't suspect Acoustica is really trying to tap the market space where Samplitude or Pro Tools lives.
You mean insanely overpriced and/or incredibly unfriendly software? Thank God for small favors.

$199 for Samplitude is overpriced? And let's see, about 4 days to learn the entire program is unfriendly? How much is Acoustica paying you to squash opinions that aren't in line with your Mixcraft man-crush?

This is much ado about nothing. Try taking the exact same recording and using the exact same settings using the exact same plugins and compare. I did. No difference. Believe what you want but IMO none of this holds up at all. Mixcraft is not only full-featured and far easier to use than Samplitude (and every other DAW I tried) but it's "audio engine" is for all intents and purposes the same. Nothing to see here. Carrying on.


Once again, if you don't agree with it, you have to delegitimize it with "This is much ado about nothing." I think you have some insecurity issues that you need to get over little man. Have a nice life here in your Mixcraft safe-space. I've moved on from this inferior software, and apparently so has Mick (Way to go buddy!). As for you, maybe one day your music will be featured on Sesame Street.

Tana Edwards
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby Tana Edwards » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:04 am

Hi, did you know that the music of sesame street has won eight grammys?
Just saying.

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jlouvar
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby jlouvar » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:35 am

Attention Moderators: Since this thread is turning into a train wreak... Please lock or remove this thread.
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

TonyRapa
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby TonyRapa » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:23 am

I think people should be allowed their views. If someone is not happy with something then they would be a fool to cotinue with it. On the other hand, if someone is very much contented with what they are using then they would be a fool to move on, but there would be no harm in trying out other stuff.

My point is this: whatever we feel about MC8 (or any other DAW) shouldn't end up becoming a death match! Say your peice, respect others' peice and move on. For me personally, Reaper and Ableton are DAWs that I just cannot get on with. But I know that there are many people out there that'll swear by them. MC8, on the other hand, allows me to just get on with my creativity without any hassle. Maybe my workflow is different to others. In terms of sound, I can't really hear any issues, but then maybe my ears are not tuned right. Who knows?

The bottom line: let's keep the discussion respectful even if we disagree. Believe me, I'm no limp-wristed progressive but heatedly arguing over DAWs is not constructive. :D

mick
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby mick » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:53 am

Hi mixguy2

Before mick edited his post above, he stated that he has deleted Mixcraft from his computer and moved on, so I don’t expect mick will be posting here anymore... unless he’s just planning on trolling now. :wink:
What? and abandon the best forum know to man? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

In fact I replied to the GG blue query already, if the guy can't get the thing working I would be tempted to re-install and have a look because the vst worked for me.

Won't be trolling but if I have a helpful suggestion (or think I have then I'll give it a shot).
I still have the installation file so who knows. The reason I deleted is because I am drawn to using Mixcraft but then end up with frustrating situations and any tiny spark of inspiration goes through the window. I haven't come across any daw that handles midi files as well as Mixcraft apart from Cubase and the difference is Mixcraft wins with some and Cubase others. Samplitude not as good for importing midi files unless you re-program every instrument and detail.
On the Mixcraft/Samplitude comparison thing, yes there is a difference A/B but if you listen to Mixcraft stand alone and use 3rd party fx you will have no issues at all with Mixcraft it does sound great. I deleted because I just don't think Mixcraft is going anywhere with midi so I now use something that is. It's something I've been forced to do but maybe when I've calmed down a bit I will probably click on the installation file.
I have a soft spot for Mixcraft and the guys on this forum because they got me going with something that completely baffed me at first go, although I'm no expert I do have little moments when I like to thing I am. :lol:
Kind regards to all, and all comments are respected but I haven't gone away, just taking a look over the hill. :D :D :D

mick
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby mick » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:13 am

I should clear some things up why I made the decision to move on.
1
Opening a instrument track opens the instrument list and in the details we have keyboard range, octave + or - and many other choices, so far so good and this is great.
Open a few more instrument tracks and it isn't long before the screen hosts a big confusing mess, you have to have presence of mind to close one track before opening another, if not confusion sets in and you can be editing track 3 only to find you've done track 6 instead. Start all over again! Undo the last changes, and find track 3. Repeat over and over until you feel like chucking Mixcaft through the window but you can't do that because its not an object.
Close Mixcraft and leave it for another day only to go through the same silly process.
2
The transport controls (this is my favorite moan) open just 1 window whether vst or fx and the controls get obliterated, start moving windows, if you have a few open just move them all.
3
No tracks to deal with midi channels, only lanes and as I've mentioned, lanes do not work with midi, you cannot edit lane midi information the way you can with a dedicated midi track (as in Samplitude and Cubase and others) No way to edit 2 simultaneous midi tracks in the piano roll, in other words. Synchronizing midi information between 2 tracks can not be done.
4
Still No Sys-ex
6
Still no way to write smooth CC curves
From M6 to date none of the above and all midi related apart from the transport controls, all discussed many times over.

TonyRapa
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby TonyRapa » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:37 am

mick wrote:The transport controls (this is my favorite moan) open just 1 window whether vst or fx and the controls get obliterated, start moving windows, if you have a few open just move them all.


I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you explain further, please?

mick
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby mick » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:52 am

Tony, The transport controls ought be visible at all times, I requested over and over that they be put at the top or bottom of the screen because as they are it only needs 1 window (vst or fx) and the controls are blotted out. with a few windows open they all have to be dragged to one side or closed, they are tagged to the top of the details panel and so rise and fall accordingly. An alternative would be to have a hot key to open/close so that when opening they are placed on top of windows to avoid moving or closing windows, or have them floating. I believe this is in the box for Mx9 but nothing is ever confirmed, its always "maybe" that's why I don't want to hang around for another year to find out, I can learn another program in less time. 8)

bigaquarium
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby bigaquarium » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:26 am

Morning,

Gee, I had never heard of Samplitude until today! There are too many DAWs.

:D

-N

TonyRapa
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby TonyRapa » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:55 am

mick wrote:Tony, The transport controls ought be visible at all times, I requested over and over that they be put at the top or bottom of the screen because as they are it only needs 1 window (vst or fx) and the controls are blotted out. with a few windows open they all have to be dragged to one side or closed, they are tagged to the top of the details panel and so rise and fall accordingly. An alternative would be to have a hot key to open/close so that when opening they are placed on top of windows to avoid moving or closing windows, or have them floating. I believe this is in the box for Mx9 but nothing is ever confirmed, its always "maybe" that's why I don't want to hang around for another year to find out, I can learn another program in less time. 8)


Thanks - I understand now and I agree with what you're saying but because I use a midi keyboard controller, it's not really a problem for me. But I can undestand that it could piss some users off.

bigaquarium wrote:Gee, I had never heard of Samplitude until today! There are too many DAWs.


Me too... I knew there were quite a few, but in the last month I've heard of so many more. I think the market is getting very sturated with DAWs. Only today did I hear about one called SoundBridge... I'm getting exhausted! :?
Last edited by TonyRapa on Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jlouvar
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Re: Not all audio Daws sound the same ...

Postby jlouvar » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:56 am

bigaquarium wrote:Morning,

Gee, I had never heard of Samplitude until today! There are too many DAWs.

:D

-N


Samplitude has been around for years, it’s a nice DAW, but IMO it’s not as user friendly as Mixcraft.
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.


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