ok cool i tried that and had some luck. when u say render a single "hit" is that the same as rendering the pattern (just with only one hit in your pattern)? I ask because when i tried to set up the project with 1 measure with only 1 beat in it, a window popped up saying i had to have at least 2 beats per measure. So i did and found that when i set up the cymbal how i wanted and rendered the pattern that when i added it to a new project the cymbal cut off early. Next i started over and had 4 measures with 4 beats per measure to allow the cymbal time to fade out before the end of the project. rendered this and it worked and had the long decay i was supposed to. Is this how you do it also? it seemed to work fine this way just didnt know if that is the best way to execute it. Thanks for all your help. I have never seen forums as hands on as acoustica forums!