Acoustica - Software should be easy to use

Portion of mid on the side?

Support and feedback for Acoustica's Mixcraft audio mixing software.

Moderators: Acoustica Dan, Acoustica Greg, Acoustica Chris, Acoustica Eric

User avatar
msnickybee
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am
Location: Chester, UK
Contact:

Portion of mid on the side?

Postby msnickybee » Tue May 28, 2019 4:09 am

hiya

Any ideas on how to do some basic mid/side processing in Mixcraft? (I've got 8.1 PS).
I know that the TB parametric can do M/S EQ, and maybe that's my answer.

Question:
Is there any clever/native way eg. with Output tracks or Send tracks anyone has thought of? eg. with the freeware MSED VST? I'm sure there must be a way, that would then allow better metering, EQ etc etc

Usage case:
Lots of double-tracking eg. guitars often spreads too much low-freq to the edges... A1stereocontrol helps with that, as does EQ to the side channels.

Thanks folks!
Nicky
MC8.1 PS user since v5
My latest EP Bittersweet is now available on Spotify
or check out my YouTube channel

User avatar
Mark Bliss
Posts: 6523
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Out there

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby Mark Bliss » Tue May 28, 2019 8:23 am

Hi Nicky!

One possible simple solution is to use a plug in that allows you to collapse the stereo field to mono below a set frequency.
Is that what you mean?
If so, as I recall- A1 is one option as you mentioned. Havent used that in a while.

Or are you looking for more detailed control?
There are of course many fancier options. :wink:

MX native (without a 3rd part plug in) could probably be done, but it might be a little complex.

Though it seems to work well, I never really "got" the interface/controls for msed. I guess I need to revisit that sometime. 8)

*Edited for (hopefully) improved clarity. 8)
Last edited by Mark Bliss on Tue May 28, 2019 11:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Stay in tune, Mark

Image

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

User avatar
outteh
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby outteh » Tue May 28, 2019 9:00 am

There is a freebie plugin MHORSE and MHORSE P3 that does sidechain processing. Plugin was developed by Terry West who does some fine work. Google it and try it out. :D

https://terrywest.nl/equalizers.html

User avatar
msnickybee
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am
Location: Chester, UK
Contact:

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby msnickybee » Wed May 29, 2019 2:10 am

outteh wrote:There is a freebie plugin MHORSE and MHORSE P3 that does sidechain processing. Plugin was developed by Terry West who does some fine work. Google it and try it out. :D
https://terrywest.nl/equalizers.html

Thanks! those *do* look interesting.... (not free?) but pretty powerful, looks like a good mid/side one there.

Mark Bliss wrote:One possible simple solution is to use a plug in that allows you to collapse the stereo field to mono below a set frequency...A1 is one option as you mentioned. MX native (without a 3rd part plug in) could probably be done, but it might be a little complex

Yes, I use A1, but was looking to see if (yet) we had any MX native option...I guess not. Thanks Mark :-)
Nicky
MC8.1 PS user since v5
My latest EP Bittersweet is now available on Spotify
or check out my YouTube channel

User avatar
msnickybee
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am
Location: Chester, UK
Contact:

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby msnickybee » Wed May 29, 2019 6:57 am

I should add (and I'm by NO means an expert) that I think mid/side processing is totally *where it's at* in mixing and more importantly mastering. Limiter no.6 has a great mid/side compressor, and also a very subtle mid/side peak limiter.

The guys over at the Logic forums talk about the benefits of doing M/S in the mixer, rather than through plugins, and I agree with them. That's why I was looking for anyone here with experience of that.
A simple(r) alternative workaround, eg. with a drum kit, is to bounce it to mono, and bring it back in - compress it, then you're essentially treating the mid and not the sides. It's that kind of thinking. Plus, doing it native allows more plugins and treatment (eg. reverb) to then be added...
(side channel reverb anyone? lol)

Still hopeful!
Nicky
MC8.1 PS user since v5
My latest EP Bittersweet is now available on Spotify
or check out my YouTube channel

User avatar
outteh
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby outteh » Wed May 29, 2019 7:14 am

You can try the same process the Logic folks talk about in Mixcraft. I haven’t seen many articles on M/S processing except using a plugin. Here is one article though that looks pretty interesting. Looks like fun! :D

https://www.producerspot.com/best-tips-for-mid-side-processing-techniques
Last edited by outteh on Wed May 29, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
msnickybee
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am
Location: Chester, UK
Contact:

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby msnickybee » Wed May 29, 2019 7:52 am

I *think* it might be possible with the following plugin chain, which seems to be explained here using:

>> MSED set to encode
<insert plugins here eg. EQ, delay etc)
MSED set to encode

but given that mid becomes left, and side becomes right, we need plugins which can just operate on either L or R individually
Nicky
MC8.1 PS user since v5
My latest EP Bittersweet is now available on Spotify
or check out my YouTube channel

User avatar
outteh
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby outteh » Wed May 29, 2019 9:33 am

Just a thought. Assume we work with mono tracks. We usually place vocal, bass, and some drum parts in the middle. We pan guitars, horns, keyboards etc. left or right depending on what we are trying to accomplish. So if we create two submix tracks and put the middle tracks in one and the side tracks in the other, we could apply separate EQ and effects on the submixes, thus mid/side processing? :D

User avatar
msnickybee
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am
Location: Chester, UK
Contact:

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby msnickybee » Thu May 30, 2019 12:29 am

outteh wrote:Just a thought. Assume we work with mono tracks. We usually place vocal, bass, and some drum parts in the middle. We pan guitars, horns, keyboards etc. left or right depending on what we are trying to accomplish. So if we create two submix tracks and put the middle tracks in one and the side tracks in the other, we could apply separate EQ and effects on the submixes, thus mid/side processing? :D

That might just be a VERY super clever idea! MSED encode / decode on the submix effects... Gonna try that this weekend....
Thanks Tom!
Nicky
MC8.1 PS user since v5
My latest EP Bittersweet is now available on Spotify
or check out my YouTube channel

User avatar
msnickybee
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am
Location: Chester, UK
Contact:

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby msnickybee » Thu May 30, 2019 12:30 am

msnickybee wrote:
outteh wrote:Just a thought. Assume we work with mono tracks. We usually place vocal, bass, and some drum parts in the middle. We pan guitars, horns, keyboards etc. left or right depending on what we are trying to accomplish. So if we create two submix tracks and put the middle tracks in one and the side tracks in the other, we could apply separate EQ and effects on the submixes, thus mid/side processing? :D

That might just be a VERY super clever idea! MSED encode / decode on the submix effects... Not *exactly* the complete solution, but the right kind of thinking.... Gonna try that this weekend....
Thanks Tom!
Nicky
MC8.1 PS user since v5
My latest EP Bittersweet is now available on Spotify
or check out my YouTube channel

User avatar
Ian Craig
Posts: 830
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:15 pm
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland, UK
Contact:

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby Ian Craig » Thu May 30, 2019 12:43 pm

Hello,

I suggest trying the free bundle of 33 plugins by MeldaProductions. They mostly have a list of processing options via the button on the right (see screenshot). just click the button to see it


2019-05-30 20_36_57-Mixcraft 8.1 Pro Studio 64-Bit Build 418 - Untitled Project.mx8 _.png
2019-05-30 20_36_57-Mixcraft 8.1 Pro Studio 64-Bit Build 418 - Untitled Project.mx8 _.png (107.06 KiB) Viewed 988 times
...
Mixcraft 8 Pro Studio Build 418 (64bit)
AMD Ryzen 8 Core 3.0 GHz,
2TB SSD etc, 40GB RAM,
Windows 10 Professional
Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 (1st Gen, USB2).

User avatar
msnickybee
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am
Location: Chester, UK
Contact:

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby msnickybee » Fri May 31, 2019 2:20 am

Ian Craig wrote:I suggest trying the free bundle of 33 plugins by MeldaProductions. They mostly have a list of processing options via the button on the right (see screenshot). just click the button to see it

Thanks Ian, I've got the Melda ones, will take a re-look. I am still hopeful for something a bit more Mixcraft Native, but you're dead right - these Melda ones are pretty powerful!
Nicky
MC8.1 PS user since v5
My latest EP Bittersweet is now available on Spotify
or check out my YouTube channel

freightgod
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:18 am

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby freightgod » Fri May 31, 2019 5:11 am

outteh wrote:Just a thought. Assume we work with mono tracks. We usually place vocal, bass, and some drum parts in the middle. We pan guitars, horns, keyboards etc. left or right depending on what we are trying to accomplish. So if we create two submix tracks and put the middle tracks in one and the side tracks in the other, we could apply separate EQ and effects on the submixes, thus mid/side processing? :D


Wow. This just blew my mind. Not that it takes much, but this kind of sounds genius.

User avatar
outteh
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby outteh » Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 am

I tried this with mixed results. It’s not “true” mid/side processing but it can add some flavor to the mix. If you use the encode/decode process with it, it is better. Plus you could do three submix tracks, left, right and center. :D 8)

Drdish007
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Tecumseh, ON, Canada

Re: Portion of mid on the side?

Postby Drdish007 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:21 am

Hi,
You may be able to do it in mixcraft. I was looking at a circuit on a ms microphone from paia. You have 3 mic's, one center, one left, and one right. It uses 5 signals. 1 - left, 2 - minus left, 3 - right, 4 - minus right, 5 - center.

The 5 - center is mono going equally to left and right.
The 1 - left goes to the left.
The 2 - minus left goes to the right.
The 3 - right goes to the right.
The 4 - minus right goes to the left.I
Same gain level on all channels.

To do this in Mixcraft you would have to make a copy of the left signal ( track ) and invert it's polarity. Do the same for the right signal ( track ). The center signal ( track ) is mono, equal level in the left and right. ( track panned to center )

Sub mix the left / minus right and right / minus left for the side control. The mid signal is the mono center. Now you can balance the mic and side signals.

The combining of the " left / minus right and right / minus left " get rid of phase differences that causes comb filtering.

Hope this helps. It seems simple to do, with a little work in copying and inverting priorities on some of your tracks.

- Myran.
Mixcraft8RS(418)64Bit, Win. 10 64Bit, Intel i5 @ 3.20GHz, ssd 250GB(os),1TB hdd(library audio),1TB hdd (recorded audio),Nvidia GeForce1050i video,16GB RAM,Focusrite 18I20 2nd gen usb,Motu 5 ch.midi interface, D5,U220,Keystation88,B4000+,Leslie,Rhodes73mk1


Return to “Mixcraft”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], MSN [Bot], Northfield.Lenox and 18 guests