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Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

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jlouvar
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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby jlouvar » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:00 pm

The_Chief wrote:
jlouvar wrote:FWIW: That my friend is called poor Customer Service. :(


Yeah, I think that qualifies!
:P

So I had a chance to do a little more testing and troubleshooting: this time, I took a good, hard look at the Line Out signal. I connected the aux cable to a portable Bluetooth speaker that also has an aux input. After a few notes and tones, I could hear something... but it was barely audible. I tried the headphone jack, but the audio wasn't much better. The only thing I could think to try was the gain control on the back of the keyboard. It was already turned clockwise to the MAX position: but I eased it counterclockwise toward the MIN position. The signal increased, as did the volume! I moved the aux cable back to Line Out L/R and continued turning "down" the gain... the signal got better and the volume increased.

Apparently, the MAX is down and MIN is up in the Yamaha world. I'll bet they drive on the wrong side of the road, too...

:D

I disconnected the cable from the speaker and reconnected it to the Line In jack on the sound card, making sure that the preferences were set correctly for the Line In, WaveRT 44KHz at 24 bit stereo. I armed an audio input track for Line In and press some keys on the Yamaha.

Nothing. It's not a matter of output, I have no signal on that track. If I select "Microphone" I get great input signal from the USB mic. The mic is NOT connected directly to the sound card.

Having proved the Line Out on the keyboard good, and the aux cable good (albeit noisy, I'll talk with the cable company about that), I'm back to isolating the issue to an obscure setting I've missed or a bad input jack on the card. What are your thoughts? Please feel free to chime in and thank you for your patience: we're not done & ready for the flooring team yet, and it's getting late.


You need to get Windows to recognize the keyboard (hear it with Windows) first... if it doesn’t work with Windows it won’t work with Mixcraft.
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby The_Chief » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:08 pm

Thanks, Joe: when I boot up the keyboard and it's ready, Windows DOES recognize it with a "USB accessory detected" tone. At least it did when I had it connected with the USB cable. Since it's going directly to the Line In jack of the sound card, via an aux audio cable, how would Windows recognize it over any other audio source like a phone or MP3 player?

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby Mark Bliss » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:00 pm

The_Chief wrote:Thanks, Joe: when I boot up the keyboard and it's ready, Windows DOES recognize it with a "USB accessory detected" tone. At least it did when I had it connected with the USB cable. Since it's going directly to the Line In jack of the sound card, via an aux audio cable, how would Windows recognize it over any other audio source like a phone or MP3 player?

It doesnt and its not relevant, as you arent using usb. You are using audio out, and have proven that the audio out at the keyboard works.
As Tom points out, you are looking at the soundcard and related settings.
For the most part this has gone in circles and a lot of unrelated stuff keeps coming back into the conversation.
IE: for example, the usb mic. It is basically its own sound device and a/d converter. Its functionality means nothing relative to the keyboard other than one important consideration- if it is active the soundcard you are trying to use for the keyboard audio may be disabled. Or it may work. Not familiar with the card or its driver. Thinking theres a clue there.
Similarly, trying to use the keyboard usb for midi data and the soundcard for audio at the same time, may not work together, or may require some special settings. ASIO may not work. Wavert may possibly work. Dunno!
I have seen many on-board cards are disabled when certain usb audio devices are plugged in or active.
All this is going to depend on the specific soundcard and its driver. I would certainly recommend testing with no usb audio devices plugged in/active.
Similarly, whats with the spdif output? Whats it connected to? Have you tried analog line out instead?
Bottom line imo- a dedicated audio card and driver designed for use with a daw instead of gaming and/or surround sound entertainment device use might be a lot simpler to configure. And this is in the end, an audio card configuration issue, i am betting on it.
Stay in tune, Mark

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby The_Chief » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:42 am

If that's the case, I was sold a false bill of goods on the Sound Blaster Audigy 5Rx, as I specifically asked: "here's what I intend to do, will this work for me?" and was told YES. There are enough gamers out there that I can still recover some of the cost by reselling it.

As Jlouver pointed out way back on Page 1, I suppose I can always run everything through an audio interface before sending it to the PC; or I can buy another sound card based on the consensus among you good folks. Or both, if you feel it's necessary. No one wants this to be resolved sooner than I do.

Thanks again!

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outteh
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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby outteh » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:59 am

To Mark’s point, yes, an audio device dedicated to music production is the best option these days. However, your sound card should still produce something! So don’t give up just yet. Try some other settings on the sound card and see what happens. :D

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby The_Chief » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:15 am

To answer Mark Bliss: I disconnected the USB mic, so there should be no conflict. The Windows sound settings has the input for Line In on the Sound Blaster Audigy card. I changed the output from SPDIF to the Speakers, and it tests fine. SPDIF is the digital optical audio output from the sound card to the speaker system, which is a very low latency 5.1 channel system to monitor what my work is sounding like from the various channels. That is the only output from the card. The only other option for sound output is the headphone jack.

I have no MIDI or USB connection from the Yamaha to anywhere. The ONLY output I'm currently trying is the Line Out L/R via 3.5mm aux cable (which fails to impress me). The latest Audigy drivers are installed, as are the latest Yamaha drivers.

For Jlouver: I looked at the Focusrite 2i2 but I like the balanced outputs of the 2i4, although I can't imagine ever using more than 1 or 2 inputs. The Yamaha does everything I can imagine I would need right now; and I can adjust those sounds any way I want to... once I get it all INTO the PC and the software. What I see on the Focusrite are two XLR inputs (presumably for a left & right mic) and a MIDI input from the Yamaha.

And yes, I agree with all of you: I'm brand new and WAY in over my head :P :D

EDIT: Just for spits & giggles, I reconnected the USB cable to the Yamaha and tried it for sound. Yes, I got sound, but on a default Acoustic Piano track. No matter the sound I selected on the keyboard, Mixcraft only used it as an acoustic piano. I need to check the Preferences and see if I can get things tweaked. The issue is the the Sound Device in Mixcraft Preferences has two options: "What U Hear" and "Line In" on the sound card. The USB input from the keyboard is not recognized by Mixcraft, although the USB microphone WAS. A work in progress...

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outteh
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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby outteh » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:53 am

The USB connection is transmitting MIDI. That’s why the instrument track, Acoustic Piano, is giving you sound. Don’t keep the USB connection hooked up while trying to get Audio sound. Try the different settings of your sound card. Also, in windows, see if there are any hidden or disabled sound settings, like Stereo Mix. You are trying to arm an AUDIO track when testing your keyboard? :D

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The_Chief
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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby The_Chief » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:05 am

No, I don't have two outputs connected to the Yamaha at any one time. It's been either the USB cable to the PC OR the Line Out aux cable to the sound card. Not both, ever. The condenser mic has a dedicated input to the Yamaha, so no mic is currently connected to the computer.

One would think, though, that if this keyboard has over a thousand instruments, voices and sounds, that whatever I select would be sent to the computer and to the software. But Mixcraft wants to use whatever I select as a simple MIDI controller to play the notes for its own virtual instruments (in the case of the default project, "acoustic piano").

I'm starting to think that Mixcraft is not the best program for what I want to do...

@Outteh - your Windows settings looks way different than mine! But I will go back and verify the Windows settings. There is only ONE audio input to the PC at any one time.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby Mark Bliss » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:07 am

Note, cross posted with Tom 8)
And btw this is the same in any daw.

Back to the beginning-
The usb output of the keyboard is midi data, not audio. It will not play the soundbanks from the keyboard. You would need to select sounds via the daw host and virtual instruments on an instrument track.
To output audio from the keyboard requires an audio connection. (And an AUDIO track in the daw, yes.

Mixcraft will not output surround sound. It sends a 2 channel stereo digital signal to the soundcard. Conversion to analog occurs there.
Having no surround sound encoding to decode, the soundcard may be capable of producing a "faux" surround output at best. Again, unfamiliar with this card, or entire portion of the topic. Surround sound is currently a gaming or sometimes cinema thing. I do music. Old school stereo at this time.

The inputs on the Focusrite (or other current audio interfaces) are typically "combination" jacks allowing for the use of xlr mic or 1/4" instrument jacks as applicable.

And I didnt mean to imply the Audigy card wont work, I just meant a simple soundcard/interface designed for the purpose of recording/playback in a daw environment may be found to be a lot less hassle to setup. as Tom states, I dont mean to encourage giving up.
The Audigy (and its driver) isnt really specifically designed for low latency recording purposes, and has a bunch of features that may simply be getting in the way of making sense of what should be a simple solution.
Cant be certain, maybe I'm wrong. You may still have problems with another solution.
I really thought there would be progress when you discovered the gain control that attenuates by turning clockwise. This stuff can drive you nuts.
Stay in tune, Mark

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby The_Chief » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:19 am

Okay Mark, et al: I looked into the Recording Settings of Windows and Line In on the sound card is the only enabled source. Yet neither aux cable output on the Yamaha (Line Out L/R or R) produce any detectable signal. I learned that the GAIN pot is for the mic input to the keyboard: so the lower the mic gain, the higher the rest of it is. Since I'm not currently using the mic, I turned it OFF on the control and the GAIN all the way down.

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To wrap this up, because my brain is becoming numb (also have wife, two money pit dogs, carpet & flooring going in and a stripped deck awaiting stain, so this house is a hot mess of stuff everywhere), is it the consensus of all in the thread that an audio interface would be the fix here? If so, I can get the Focusrite 4i4 in by the end of the week; connect the keyboard & mic to it; run a USB connector from it to the PC; and HOPEFULLY be done with it. So there would be no input directly to the sound card at all.

EDIT: I would have to get the 4i4 vs the 2i2 because the smaller one does not have the correct inputs for the Yamaha. I would need the MIDI in, which is on the back of the 4i4; while the 2i2 only has the XLR jacks for a guitar or mic, for instance...

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby jlouvar » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:34 am

For Jlouver: I looked at the Focusrite 2i2 but I like the balanced outputs of the 2i4, although I can't imagine ever using more than 1 or 2 inputs. The Yamaha does everything I can imagine I would need right now; and I can adjust those sounds any way I want to... once I get it all INTO the PC and the software. What I see on the Focusrite are two XLR inputs (presumably for a left & right mic) and a MIDI input from the Yamaha.


Both the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and 2i4 have two XLR and two 1/4" Line/Instrument Inputs. I upgraded from a first generation 2i2 to a second generation 2i4 and I really like the 2i4 better because it has MIDI in/out, more outputs, and a Input/Playback knob which is very helpful.
Last edited by jlouvar on Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby The_Chief » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:42 am

jlouvar wrote:Both the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and 2i4 have two XLR and two 1/4" Line/Instrument Inputs. I upgraded from a first generation 2i2 to a second generation 2i4 and I really like the 2i4 better because it has a Input/Playback knob which is very helpful.


Will the 1/4" Line input on the back of the 2i2 sufficiently transmit any sound I make on this Yamaha? I purchased it for its astonishing catalog of sounds, based on actual instrument sampling: if I can't get any of that off the machine, it's worthless to me. I had hopes of getting a more accurate sound through a USB or MIDI interface... but if you say that the 1/4" analog line is sufficient, I'll take your word for it.

EDIT: Jlouver, I don't see a Line In on the 2i2: I DO see a 1/2" Line In on the 4i4...

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby jlouvar » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:45 am

I recommend the 2nd generation 2i4.
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby The_Chief » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:08 am

jlouvar wrote:I recommend the 2nd generation 2i4.


There's a 3rd generation out now... does the 2nd generation have a feature or something that was removed? Manufacturers like to do that sometimes, and then charge to add it back in
:P

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Re: Yamaha PSR-S975 - What am I doing wrong?

Postby Acoustica Greg » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:12 am

Hi,

A 2nd or 3rd generation 2i2 or 2i4 will provide audio via USB, and you'll arm your Mixcraft audio tracks to record directly from that device, you won't be selecting Line In.

If your keyboard is outputting audio with sufficient gain, this should work, and it will provide low-latency audio recording.

As for your Audigy, assuming the keyboard is outputting audio, there might be some kind of interface for your soundcard that allows you to control what Line In does. Look through your programs in your Windows start menu and see if there is anything for Creative or Soundblaster.

Greg

P.S. We're just recommending NOT to get a 1st generation Focusrite, because they aren't optimized for Windows 10 and tend to have audio performance problems.
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