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Master Meter Levels

Support and feedback for Acoustica's Mixcraft audio mixing software.

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trevlyns
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Master Meter Levels

Postby trevlyns » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:58 pm

hey fellas
Getting back to old faithful after some time and just going through the vids.
I notice the master track has a limit readout of -6db. Can this be changed? When I master, I need to see 0dbFS, although I could slap a separate VU plugin on the track...
Keep on trackin'

Trevor

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jlouvar
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Re: Master Meter Levels

Postby jlouvar » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:06 pm

Yeah, you'll need to slap on a separate level meter plugin.
Last edited by jlouvar on Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Master Meter Levels

Postby Mark Bliss » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:08 pm

Personal opinion- the native metering is grossly insufficient for accurate mix downs, much less mastering. (And Vu is largely outdated and irrelevant in the digital realm IMO.)

I use third party metering for true peak data. And loudness data too.
Last insert, master fader at unity.
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Mark Bliss
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Re: Master Meter Levels

Postby Mark Bliss » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:09 pm

OK, lets back up-

Trevor, actually the Mixcraft master meters last "marked" increment is -6Dbfs, but zero would be here:

0dBfs.png
0dBfs.png (62.61 KiB) Viewed 328 times

But the reason I would use something more precise (for the purposes you describe) is that you cannot judge peaks by eye, as you would never see it and this type of meter just doesn't accurately show it anyway.
Even some meters that have peak indicators many times miss by a little. There's often a difference between common peak meters and "true peak" meters.

And, often mix downs or masters that were set to 0 peak can be analyzed and show some clipped peaks for various technical reasons beyond potential metering errors anyway.
These are but some of the reasons many engineers consider working at the edge of 0 to be a poor choice due to the fact that DA converters don't work as accurately when you get too close. Most recommend slightly under for wav, and a minimum of 1 dB under for MP3's

So unless one is intent on absolute loudness at all costs..... That isn't something I do anyway.

And as far as the VU meter thing goes, (I strongly suspect you know some of this, but some other reader may not, so):
The VU meter was a reference in the analog days, and referred to a level centered around what is equiv. to about -18dBfs (dBfs being a completely different digital reference scale), and the old VU scale isn't equipped nor intended to give any peak reference. Its an averaging thing.
Being old school I initially found familiarity in using a emulated VU meter for some purposes, but I have gotten over it and moved into the modern times. 8)
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trevlyns
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Re: Master Meter Levels

Postby trevlyns » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:20 am

Thanks guys and brother Mark for a detailed explanation too :wink:
Coming to think about it, I use T-Racks mastering suite which can be stand alone or plugin - very accurate metering system. Another route could be my Klanghelm VUMT meter with a brickwall limiter as last plug in the chain - I normally set to -2dbfs.
Keep on trackin'

Trevor

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I started out with nothing - and still have most of it left! - Seasick Steve

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jlouvar
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Re: Master Meter Levels

Postby jlouvar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:20 pm

You're very welcome. Best wishes.
- Joe -
MX 8.1 Pro, Build 418, 64-bit. i5, 1.80GHz, 8GB, Windows 10. Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Event and PreSonus monitors, Sony MDR-7506, Korg TR61, Akai MPK249, Fender P & J basses, Ric, Strat, D35, stomp boxes and a lot of microphones, etc.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Master Meter Levels

Postby Mark Bliss » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:26 pm

trevlyns wrote:Thanks guys and brother Mark for a detailed explanation too :wink:
Coming to think about it, I use T-Racks mastering suite which can be stand alone or plugin - very accurate metering system. Another route could be my Klanghelm VUMT meter with a brickwall limiter as last plug in the chain - I normally set to -2dbfs.

Always welcome Trevor.

Yeah, I think that the metering in most any suite of mastering software such as T-Racks, Ozone etc. Is going to cover most of the bases. Its there for a reason.... (Full disclosure, I do have both of those examples)

But on the other end off the spectrum, there may be much to be learned from the metering and analysis features in- say SPAN or ToneBoosters EBU which are free options. (I will say the peak info in SPAN falls under the previously mentioned difference between common peak data and "true peak" but that doesn't rule it out for being useful or educational, its just another piece of the puzzle to be aware of!

Another free tool of potential interest is the YouLean loudness meter. It has true peak data, loudness analysis and can even help locate just where in a file the highest peaks occur, if that's of interest.

But I don't want to suggest any single tool as being "ideal"
Needs and styles vary. What suits you may be different from my preferences. Plus, I may suggest one today and be using something different by the weekend. :lol:

But I have used assorted metering programs from Brainworx, Hofa, HorNet and many more. (ALL by the way free or VERY inexpensive- this is a hobby after all! 8)

And while some other DAW's have more robust mastering and/or metering tools, and its something I have suggested that Mixcraft would benefit from adding- I also recognize this is one of the reasons it is so absurdly affordable. Minimalism isn't necessarily a bad thing either!

But most of all they have all been very educational and useful. Several variations remain in regular use for specific purposes. Others have been simply superceded. :wink:
Stay in tune, Mark

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trevlyns
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Re: Master Meter Levels

Postby trevlyns » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:59 am

Thanks Mark - yeah I have a couple of those brands you mentioned - just a case of settling down and actually using them? :D
Keep on trackin'

Trevor

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Win 10 64 bit; MX8 Pro; Intel quad core i-5; 3.0 GHz; 16 GB RAM
I started out with nothing - and still have most of it left! - Seasick Steve


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