Discussion: Feedback on music projects

[Mark Bliss]

There has been some lament on songs submissions getting little or no feedback when shared here, and I suggested maybe we could discuss that specifically.

My initial feeling was that part of it was caused by a situation where there were few people reading this section of the forum, but after scanning the view counts- I'd say I was wrong. Even if you consider that many of those views are multiple views by the same user reading posts as they are added to a thread, there's quite a few. How many are reading but not clicking on the link I cant say, but I am guessing by my own statistics, its far less. How many of those who do click through are really giving a serious listen, I'd say even far fewer. So we are back to part of my theory of "its probably only a small group" we are considering for potential useful feedback.

But even taking that into account, I am wondering if there aren't ways to make it more useful and constructive.

My first suggestions for those who seek more feedback, has been to try to stick to posting a link to ONE song, instead of links to your EP or entire portfolio. To discuss your project and process a little and to not only specifically ask for general feedback, but ask a few specific questions.

My feeling has been that some don't really want critique, and those who ask are often extremely general in nature. Maybe that's just my perception.

Any other ideas?

[AHornsby]

"How does it sound?" is way different than: "What do you think?" So, specificity is a must when asking for criticism -- which can be a 'bad' or a 'good' thing -- plus, a person has to resolve themselves to be thick skinned when they ask for or read any opinion, i.e., opinion. Everybody has one.

[Mark Bliss]

Excellent point.

Be prepared. Some songs may get the response that the delete button may be the best method of improvement. IE: Need. To. Start. Over. Or not.
You ask, gotta allow that this might be the response.

On the other end of the spectrum, others might just recommend some polishing tips.

I tend to be blunt and frank, (and opinionated. Guilty.)
Others try to be extra kind.......

[GovernmentMule]

I do not give feedback too often mainly because of the style or genre. Take for instance the MikeMello tune that's up right know. I could not tell you if that is the greatest rap tune of all time or the worst. So I usually just keep my mouth shut. Plus I'm still learning how to mix myself and it is hard to tell someone what's wrong when you probably cannot do a better job. I do give feedback on occasion if I like something.

[RobertAllan]

I dont have a perfect solution here. But i do think that music being ignored at a music forum
is pretty sad. Yes, i believe that as an artist, if you put yourself out there then you must accept different
opinions, critic etc..Thats part of the game, but i think a point (as we are in a userbased musician forum)
should be not to discurage people from posting their stuff. As far as being specific as in what you look for..well, i can understand that point, but that sorta changes from song to song, project to project (in my case atleast)
So i can accept that thats stupid, but i would think that it would be okay to have a "What about THIS specifically"
AND a "Heres a finished song/project, any overall impressions?" kinda thing. As from my perspective finished song/demo/project etc.. I AM a work in progress. But thats just my opinion, i might be alone on thinking like this.

As far as ONE song Vs EP/whole portfolio, i certainly understand what Mark means, im a bit split on it myself though, i like the medium of collections, and cant remember the last time i baught a single, i like the overall experience an album/EP can give me, from songs to cover-art etc..etc.. But i can agree that this site may not be a place for that.

In the end im part of the problem as i myself generally only comment/leave feedback when i find something to say about it. Certain genres are way out of my league/intrest and therefor i feel my opinion/thoughts would be pretty wortless to the creator, but on the flipside maybe that person just needed to know someone checked out him/her even if a simple " I liked the bassline" or whatever,lol I dont know..i dont think theres a right or wrong answer here, but i think its pretty sad when people have to bump their own thread time after time and noone bothers to say a word about their creation.





RobertAllan

[Mark Bliss]

Well Robert, your last user showcase post had 3947 views. I wouldn't call that ignored. I'd call it a surprising number personally.

I still have to say, I don't know what you want, or taking it further- what you expect to change from bumping the thread or commenting on the lack of replies.
I can only speculate why others don't comment, otherwise I can only speak for myself.

In general, after skimming the songs, I had little to offer beyond what I already said elsewhere. "You have gotten better since your early submissions".
You have indicated yourself they need work in all areas right?

One thing that popped out for me as I recall was that the first song seemed to not fit with the others, and perhaps it was a poor choice to lead off the set IMO.

Another user here mentioned to me they thought your lyric writing showed potential, maybe that's an area to pursue more aggressively.

It appears your efforts may be scattered and perhaps could use some focus. I cant imagine it to be efficient, if even possible for many people to make major strides trying to improve playing, singing, composing, mixing, etc, etc, all at the same time.

I've already suggested several times posting again and either asking specific questions or something to try and get a topical dialog going. Posting a link to a set of songs has seemed to consistently draw the fewest replies in my observation, with few exceptions.
Try one song, and a question or two.

Are you actively studying any of the areas you have yourself suggested need work? Maybe a discussion of what you are working on specifically, what you are learning and how it applies to song X would get more response.

Don't know if you don't try something. Declaring you are going to just quit posting submissions here then complaining about a lack of replies sure isn't going to improve anything for you.

[RobertAllan]

Well Robert, your last user showcase post had 3947 views. I wouldn't call that ignored. I'd call it a surprising number personally.

I still have to say, I don't know what you want, or taking it further- what you expect to change from bumping the thread or commenting on the lack of replies.
I can only speculate why others don't comment, otherwise I can only speak for myself.

In general, after skimming the songs, I had little to offer beyond what I already said elsewhere. "You have gotten better since your early submissions".
You have indicated yourself they need work in all areas right?

One thing that popped out for me as I recall was that the first song seemed to not fit with the others, and perhaps it was a poor choice to lead off the set IMO.

Another user here mentioned to me they thought your lyric writing showed potential, maybe that's an area to pursue more aggressively.

It appears your efforts may be scattered and perhaps could use some focus. I cant imagine it to be efficient, if even possible for many people to make major strides trying to improve playing, singing, composing, mixing, etc, etc, all at the same time.

I've already suggested several times posting again and either asking specific questions or something to try and get a topical dialog going. Posting a link to a set of songs has seemed to consistently draw the fewest replies in my observation, with few exceptions.
Try one song, and a question or two.

Are you actively studying any of the areas you have yourself suggested need work? Maybe a discussion of what you are working on specifically, what you are learning and how it applies to song X would get more response.

Don't know if you don't try something. Declaring you are going to just quit posting submissions here then complaining about a lack of replies sure isn't going to improve anything for you.

Well..i didnt really want this "Issue" to be all about me, as i assume my way of thinking is very different from others, but oh,well,lol
First off all..Yes 3947 is an incredible ammount of views, i get that, BUT lets say even 10% of those views gave the post a quick listen, and none of them had anything to say? thats either a 100% fail on what i hoped/tried for, or a case of peoples "I dont feel like saying anything/dont have much to say" attitude, which ends up (from my perspective) the post being ignored. Maybe its the wrong word, im not english, but thats how i read it.

As far as do i work on areas i think need work, yes i do. Not in a "studying theory" kind of way, but more in a "practise makes (maybe not perfect) but better" kind of way. I write lyrics quite often (even when i dont have a song in mind) which is a "first" for me. i try to audition vocal-lines alot before recording them, to see what fits better, and (more often) what i can pull off convincingly, i try to write more "songs" as a whole then just melodies/hooks etc.. with varrying results, and so on, and your right, its prolly not efficient at all to tackle all things at once, but im left thinking that if i focus all on one single thing i woudnt get any "work" done and i think i would lose my motivation if i didnt. But again, thats me and my way of doing things.

In the end i guess i get quite easily discuraged from posting. BUT as (if i read you right in original post here)
you could also see the "issue" of views vs feedback comments, not talking specifically my posts but in general
In the end im sure your 100% right, im sure a single song with very specific question/s would get very specific replies/tips and what not, and if i am to use mixcraft forum to "grow" that seems to be the way to do it.

And..

Declaring you are going to just quit posting submissions here then complaining about a lack of replies sure isn't going to improve anything for you.

I know. 100% fail on my end..


RobertAllan

[Torton5]

I never knew this section of the forum was here until recently. I follow the Mixcraft forum but to find this you then have to go back to the board index. The navigation is wrong. It's like backing out of a forum to get to a forum that should have probably been contained within the first forum.

[freightgod]

Good discussion, Mark.

Torton5, I'm guessing 95% of all Acoustica forum posts are Mixcraft related, so you won't see too much uninteresting if you bookmark the 'view all new posts' link:

http://forums.acoustica.com/bbs/search. ... d=newposts

Just a suggestion. Using that link I don't miss a thing.

Govmule, what you said is how I feel as well. I'm so uptight about what I consider 'music' in the first place that if it isn't something I can listen to without medication then I figure I better keep my acid tongue to myself. That being said, I think the next time I see a triple 'BUMP' followed by a 'Anything anyone?' I'm just going to let it out and admit I THINK IT SUCKED AND I HATED IT...

Same goes when I get a link to an album, e.p., 20 tracks, or other all-at-once regurgitation. I don't have that kind of time or interest, I'd rather a poster recommend one or two tracks which they are specifically proud of so I can give a fair listen.

Plus 3 to what Ahornsby said as well.

I'm guessing there are around a dozen regular posters on this forum with an average age of about 72 (random number picked to make me feel younger, haha) and one certain poster has pretty much spoiled everybody by being so damn generous with his time, knowledge and experience...well, it's VERY much appreciated, but he's set the Mark pretty high for the rest of us...

[david123]

Good discussion topic, thanks for starting it. Just a couple thoughts of my own to throw in the mix. On one hand this is called User Showcase so I can see where some might believe that posting an EP might be fine. I suppose it is but to also think that many viewers want or even have time to listen to the entire portfolio is a bit unrealistic in my mind.

I'm a total newbie, been around the forum for a couple years maybe, but only recently have the opportunity to dive back in so to speak. So my opinion is just that, one more opinion.

It can be difficult to put your "stuff out there" for others to listen to, but like it has been said, you're going to need some thick skin to be able to receive criticism. I've posted only one track and asked for feedback and I am surprised to see how many views it got.I'm even more surprised that a few actually took the time to listen AND through some feedback my way. The help is extremely appreciated. Shoot I'm just learning the elementary tools of MX7with the help of the "old timers" here.

I think when one posts a track, he or she shouldn't expect to hear how lovely or proud they are of you; I could get that from my Grandma. Asking for feedback/direction/advice/suggestions can be a great way to learn and maybe hear what others will never tell you. Talking to myself a much as anyone with this post.

Anyway, like I said good discussion. To all the "posters" out there, keep on with the pursuit of getting better today than yesterday. And a huge THANK YOU to those who are so "damn generous" with their time, knowledge, and experience. That's how novices like me learn.

[Mark Bliss]

Once again, I want to make sure I have been clear-

I don't want to discourage in any way, the posting of songs, EP's, collections, portfolio's or videos of someone walking their dog while whistling Yankee Doodle.

All I intend to suggest is that if people want feedback, critique, opinion, impression.... you might have better responses by A: posting one song at a time and B: combining that with a discussion starter. Ask or share something on the general topic of mixing or production ideas, etc.
Or alternatively, just say hey, what do you think of my new song?

Sharing a link to a collection of songs has frequently gotten a typical response of cricket chirps, plain and simple.

I thought more about this since this discussion started and came to some conclusions.
One is that several people I have tried hard to help by picking apart their work have expressed appreciation, but at the same time, quit sharing here and asking. I am not pleased with that result.
A second realization is that for me, reacting from the gut- telling someone their song needs some work here and there can feel like constructive criticism and be potentially helpful.
On the other hand, telling someone a whole set of songs needs work...... Doesn't feel right. That just has too much potential to be painful. So on both counts, I have cut back or quit commenting unless PRETTY SPECIFIC questions are asked, and upon introspect, I realize that this is where my suggestion originally came from.

I listen to a lot of the music posted here. Hoping to find inspiration, ideas, etc. There are a few people I pass on, simply because I recognize their tastes and styles are in an area I either don't know well, or to be honest, have no appreciation for (to put it nicely).
But I at least skim through much of what is posted here.

My biggest suggestion to everyone in the user group is "Ask good questions" and "Start a discussion"
We all learn together.