New MIDI Note Clobbering

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Tranceprod Dan
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New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Tranceprod Dan » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:07 pm

What is your guys's opinion on the new note clobbering behavior compared to previous versions? I mean, I can see the appeal, as a lot of other DAWs have this behavior but it's just so weird for me to get used to, I'm not a fan of change. I'd love to see a toggle option implemented

Unless it's still bugged and this isn't an intentional change, in which case.....
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Anorax
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Anorax » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:15 pm

...say what now

Tranceprod Dan
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Tranceprod Dan » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:18 pm

MIDI in MX7.gif
MIDI in MX7.gif (157.21 KiB) Viewed 10453 times
vs
MIDI in MX8.gif
MIDI in MX8.gif (223.54 KiB) Viewed 10453 times
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Anorax
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Anorax » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:40 pm

I personally am of mixed opinion on the MX7 method, but that's very weird in MX8 and there's no way that that isn't a bug.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Acoustica Greg » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:23 am

Hi,

This is by design. We'll pass along your feedback to the developers.

When we started clobbering notes in Mixcraft 7, we got lots of negative feedback. This is similar to the way it worked in Mixcraft 6, with the additional feature of clobbering when you click on the exposed note.

Greg
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Mark Bliss
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Mark Bliss » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:56 am

What's up with that last part in the MX8 example, where the note splits off into a third note?

As far as the clobbering part goes, I have no real strong preference, though I always find it annoying when a note can be hiding behind another.
Maybe a future enhancement of a toggle in preferences would be a nice option.
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Acoustica Greg » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:13 am

Hi,

Actually I was partially wrong. Part of this is a bug. Here's what's happening:

From now on, note clobbering won't happen until the note in question is deselected. This is the way that a lot of other DAWs work. As I mentioned, when we introduced note clobbering in Mixcraft 7 we got lots of complaints, so now the clobbering won't occur until the note that is being moved is deselected.

The third note being created is a bug.

1. The shorter note is being deselected, so it's clobbering what's under it. This is as designed.
2. A new note is being created as if you hadn't clicked on a note, but just on an empty space. This is not the way it should work.

What should happen is that the underlying tail end of the longer note would be clobbered and no new note would be created.

Thanks for reporting this!

Greg
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by mick » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:40 am

Greg wrote : 1. The shorter note is being deselected, so it's clobbering what's under it. This is as designed.
Apart from the bug Greg mentions this is a non - destructive action by not overwriting an existing note as in M7. Moving the top note will re-instate the sleeping or clobbered note underneath and saves backtracking with ctrl +z that's best for multiple errors/choices, its a faster and simpler way of correcting an error step by step and best demonstrated using the notation editor. :D

Tranceprod Dan
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Tranceprod Dan » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:01 pm

Eh, I still think a toggle would be fantastic to enable mixcraft 7 style clobberization. The way I work with MIDI would just make this change frustrating. Although If it's impossible I guess I can live with it.

I even spent a few days working up this complex graphic.
Image
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Acoustica Greg » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:26 am

Hi,

Now I can picture ol' Ben Grimm clobbering those notes every time.

This behavior is going to change in the next build - it will simply select the end of the longer note instead of clobbering or creating a new note.

Thanks again for the suggestion of a toggle!

Greg
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Tranceprod Dan
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Tranceprod Dan » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:11 pm

I wanted to wait until the next build came out that cleared up some of the bugs before I went further into this.

This is why I'm not a huge fan of the change, personally. I end up interchanging between short arp/bass notes to long pads often, so this process goes from this
Mixcraft 7 work.gif
Mixcraft 7 work.gif (133.05 KiB) Viewed 10323 times
to this
Mixcraft 8 work.gif
Mixcraft 8 work.gif (182.74 KiB) Viewed 10323 times
Which is apparently conducive to a majority of people's writing style in MIDI but I guess i'm just a born complainer at heart.
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Mark Bliss
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Mark Bliss » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:24 pm

I see your point, but I am left wondering about the odd event happening here as well-
From your MX8 GIF:
Odd note behaviour.png
Odd note behaviour.png (65.73 KiB) Viewed 10321 times
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Anorax
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Anorax » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:28 pm

The clobbering is only affecting one note or two. Then any subsequent notes are clobbering the new note. Hmm.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Acoustica Greg » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:40 pm

Mark Bliss wrote:I see your point, but I am left wondering about the odd event happening here as well-
From your MX8 GIF:
Odd note behaviour.png
Hi,

That is what is left of the long note that was placed over the short notes. It's getting clobbered where the next note starts. We're trying to preserve note start times, which is musically important.

You can press the escape key to get the clobbering to happen, because that deselects the note. (Remember that note clobbering occurs when notes are deselected).

As of build 368, going back Transprod Dan's first example, if you click on the end of the underlying note, it will no longer clobber, but allow you to move the longer note if you want.

Greg
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Mark Bliss
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Re: New MIDI Note Clobbering

Post by Mark Bliss » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:36 pm

I dunno, I don't get it. Seems the return to previous state should be an undo type situation, but what do I know. The intricacy's of MIDI defy any of my sense of logic anyway.
I'll likely just continue to work in luddite mode. :roll:
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