Mixing madness

[jwarv]

Does anyone else have this issue?

The disparity I’m having is between near-field monitors and any reference systems. (especially the car) If I try to get the mix pristine in my studio it’s sounds too sharp everywhere else.
So, I adjust accordingly. But when I listen back on near-fields it sounds muddy by comparison. It’s disconcerting to say the least. I’m not sure which I should be heeding.

I also tried the mono method. Which works great, but certain elements that sound good in mono are sometimes still too loud in stereo if they’re panned 100%.

In any case, I’m becoming obsessive about perfect mixes. I’m turning into that beautiful mind guy.

[bbdrmz]

My question would be how long have you been using your monitor's? Are you use to them? I think we all have these differences in different speaker reference. It's a matter of a good balance between the different speaker's/system's and being comfortable with your decision to call it a wrap.

[jwarv]

I'm probably experiencing ear fatigue. When I listen to the near-fields fresh, they sound fine.

[outteh]

When you say you listen on on other speakers are you listening to a WAV or MP3 or other format rendition? Mixing down to MP3 has a big difference on sound quality due to compression. I run into this all the time and have to decide what medium the song will be played on in order to "adjust" the mix qualities for the medium to be rendered to.

[Tiasdad]

Mixing down to MP3 has a big difference on sound quality due to compression.

Yep. that's my excuse. It even affects my tuning and timing

[Mark Bliss]

Yep. that's my excuse. It even affects my tuning and timing

Yeah, we'll blame it on MP3, I'll have to remember that excuse.

Jwarv, it sounds to me like your answer might be ear fatigue in part, also you might want to spend some time referencing familiar music on your monitors.

And I hear you on the thought of being picky about mixing, but I am constantly slapped back to reality. Every time I think I am getting a little better and want to share my progress with someone I think will care, I insist that they listen on a proper source, and they still pull out the smart phone and give it a play. So I know in the end, all the time spent learning and all the time spent on carefully producing and mixing...... is really only for my own satisfaction.

My brother insists on displaying his cars custom subwoofer capability by playing Ricky Martin Salsa tunes. I want to send him a CD of test tones below the range of human hearing and tell him to play it loud..........

Moral of the story: The audience has no ears.

[jwarv]

Thanks guys.

I never listen to the mp3s I produce. Those are only for emailing to people.
So, it has been all wav files. I think I will try that commercial music on monitors idea. Thanks!
Meanwhile, here's a nice clip on the subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaBkvhX0ies

Another factor might be my poorly treated/untreated room. I have almost a whole wall of foam behind the speakers but nothing else on the walls. I got free advice from Auraulex along with a schematic they sent based on my dimensions. But it's awful expensive and looks like overkill to me.

What I really need is mixing guru with nothing better to do than come to my house and help me with my little audio conundrums. I'm not holding my breath.

Jwarv

[outteh]

In the meantime here's something that may peak your interest. It's an emulator (vst plugin) that simulates environments and speakers and you can adjust various things. The trial version won't let you save any settings but it will work. I was surprised when I tested it out and it really does change the way the sound "appears" in your current setup. Give it a shot.

http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/

[jwarv]

In the meantime here's something that may peak your interest. It's an emulator (vst plugin) that simulates environments and speakers and you can adjust various things. The trial version won't let you save any settings but it will work. I was surprised when I tested it out and it really does change the way the sound "appears" in your current setup. Give it a shot.

http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/

Thanks loads! I will try it.

I also listened to several commercial tracks on my KRKs and the variations are astounding. I actually feel better about my mixes.

Good on ya!

Jwarv

[wendallb]

This works for me but maybe not for everyone but when I am mixing I don't use monitors I use headphones. Just a thought.

[Mark Bliss]

Opinion:
There are pros and cons to any method, but headphones, monitors, room acoustics, whatever, the bottom line is that you must "calibrate your ears" to what you are using by knowing what well known content sounds like on it. What results am I aiming for if I don't have a target? Play some well known content, calibrate your ears so you know what the target is.

Headphones have strengths, in that you can really focus on certain details and often hear lower level bits more clearly. I like to use them especially when editing. But they also exaggerate the stereo field and often even good units have various (often serious) frequency response issues. They can create serious challenges when mixing.
Medium to high end Monitors and properly acoustic treated rooms can be a great asset for mixing, but the idea is for a flat response system for closely evaluating the way various sounds/frequencies "fit together."
Lower end monitors, like the vast majority of us might have, are often little more than or much better than a moderate to decent set of stereo speakers or multimedia systems at best.
Poorly or partially treated rooms? anything is possible. Slim chance it may help. More than likely it has little effect or even just further confuses the ear. Are the bass frequencies you hear coming directly from your mix, or bouncing off the walls and out of the corners of your room? Is that reverb setting right or part of the room? Etc Etc.
You still need to reference your mix by playing back on other systems, and put special effort into evaluating them on the types of system your typical listener is likely to use. Few of us in a home studio environment are exempt from a serious combination of the above challenges.

Train and listen to your ears. The truth is out there.

[Tiasdad]

Just to add to Mark's excellent post above...

You'll never please everyone as sound/music is very subjective and the final mix should always be down to personal preference. And there lies our biggest challenge as, If like me, you are your own worst critic, it's learning where to draw the line and stop messing with it

[TrevsAudio]

Opinion #2

Definitely 'calibrate' your monitors by listening to a professional mix in the genre of choice. Tweak untill all is pure and sweet then leave them. That way, you know what your mix could sound like.

I do my basic mix in the cans just to get appropriate levels but then move onto monitors for panning, EQ etc. Headphones can be deceiving.

Mix on monitors at a conservative level - you should be able to talk over it. Then turn them right down and see if you can still hear vocal, kick, snare and bass.

Don't fall for acoustic treatment overkill. Do a 'clap' test in your listening sweet spot to check for any reflections. Some basic treatment behind the monitors (which should Ideally be symmetrically placed and about a foot away from the wall) and first reflection points (opposite each ear) is helpful.

For sound mixing advice I have this page bookmarked.

[gypsy101]

yeah,it's a toss up-
radio,ReverbNation,earbud freaks all get mp3 mix version
hard copy CD & SoundCloud get the WAV version.

as to monitors- you just gotta learn your set. they're all different but I will say that 8's are a lot closer than 5's unless you have a sub & even then it's different. a lot of 5's will exxagerate the low end

another thing about the "in the car" system- how is it set up? equal treble & bass or enhanced "V" custom eq.etc...?
our vehicle has an 8 spkr Bose system that's pretty much dead-on until someone(not me) jacks w/ the eq.
once again-

[jwarv]

All salient points, amigos.

Especially the one about "me" being my worst critic. A lot of my tics are about much finer details than the average person would notice. I'm even getting that way with high falutin', fancy commercial releases done by the pros. Noticing sibilance in vocals for example. Which is probably not the case, just my ear over-calibrated, if there is such a thing. Sort of like the scene in the 3 Stooges where Moe had a headache and yelled at the cat to quit stomping around. But I digress.