Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Project

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HawaiianEye
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by HawaiianEye » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:30 pm

This is an important issue. It does seem to indicate a change in Mixcraft 7.

Just as long as we are making sure we have read OP's replys,
and not asking questions he has already been asked, and has replied to.
Otherwise, we are just throwing in our 2 bits, clouding the thread, and not selectively trouble shooting.

Thus; Is anybody else using this version as thoroughly as the OP? yes / no?
If yes, any similar problems?
The answer to this question will help identify the scope of this problem, and where to focus.
Whether there is a code problem, or a more localized conundrum.

I am not an expert, but I am interested in whether this gets sorted out.
garyk seems to be a seasoned user, and he is answering all pertinent questions from the experts.

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AHornsby
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by AHornsby » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:43 pm

Also, I don't know if this would have anything to do with this issue but Windows had an update last night and today I can't hear some tracks on Soundcloud, Youtube, etc.

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outteh
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by outteh » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:46 pm

I have never had this issue but several folks have reported similar issues. Definitely need to get to the bottom of this! I am very curious as to what could be the cause! :D

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by Mark Bliss » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:00 pm

Is anybody else using this version as thoroughly as the OP? yes / no?
I think yes.
If yes, any similar problems?
We have regular users who seem to read/post here daily and none have responded with a "me too!" so I am guessing not too much.

Speaking for myself-
I started using v7 in early beta, and despite some minor early version bugs, have never had cause to go back to v6. I have been using it pretty heavily and have rendered at least a half dozen projects in v251. No problems of this kind whatsoever.

Always .wav 44.1/16 FWIW.
Stay in tune, Mark

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My SOUNDCLOUD Page

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comedians
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by comedians » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Likewise as Mark says.
I have used MX7 through beta and render many mixes to WAV - 44/16 with no problems whatsoever.

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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by garyk » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:08 pm

The difference in the mixed file is the levels of some of the instruments. They are very pronounced when mixing, but end up in the background in the .wav file. Playing the .wav file in Mixcraft has the same resuilt as playing the .wav file in Sony Vegas, VLC Media Player, Windows Media Player, etc. I wouldn't expect a .wav file to sound different between applications.

I will try installing the 32-bit version and see if that makes a difference. Will try to do this by the end of the week and will post the results.

Larioso
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by Larioso » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:17 am

A couple of things I come to think of:

#1. One thing that one easily forget is that mixing realtime is 24 bit usually - and that soundcard may sound different somehow - more like a bug as I see it.

Running a media player is usually 16 bit DirectSound drivers or something.

I can't say I ever heard a difference of 16 or 24 bit - but depending on drivers and stuff like ASIO4ALL and similar can make a difference.

But I've heard differences in running 48k wav-file on one machine, since soundcard was fixed 44.1k and made it's own resampling from 48k at very low quality. So soundcard accepted connection of 48k, and resampled. Also had examples where I ran project in 48k - something from windows audio made a noise and enforced 44.1k - and suddenly daw played back at wrong pitch, but this was rather obvious. Still the point is - soundcard drivers can make a big difference how things behave.

More than one soundcard, is onboard soundcard disabled in bios - and have no idea if HDAUDIO often installed with graphics can inflict on anything, I usually disable to be be sure(don't uninstall it will install itself next computer startup).

I try to keep a single sound device active - from same brand if more than one, so same drivers.

#2. As I understand it VST plugins have two modes - one for realtime processing and one for rendering.

In theory it is possible that a plugin may have a bug regarding this - producing different result. I would suspect free stuff before anything bought. Never did warez downloads - but so called cracked stuff are also more in the realm of having such differences - the crack might have cought plugin to run, but not all modes. So use bought stuff is one thing to consider having less issues.

Especially if coming to 96k or more, not even all my Waves plugins supported more than 48k 18 months ago. Now it support 96k all over - and but not 192k all over, about 40% are still 96k max.

Just a couple of wild ideas....

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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by Anorax » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:57 pm

garyk wrote:The difference in the mixed file is the levels of some of the instruments. They are very pronounced when mixing, but end up in the background in the .wav file.
Some, not all instruments? hmm...

If it's just some instruments getting ducked by everything else, you might want to check to see if there is something in common with these instruments. Is it the effects? If it's a VST instrument, does it involve the same one? Is there a send track involved? Are they audio recordings? etc.

Another quick test is mixing down to .WAV and to .MP3 (or other compressed formats). Does the ducking problem persist in ALL mixdowns, or just those that go to WAV?

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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by Larioso » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:28 am

I remembered one thing more:

Are you using Arturia Analog Lab or their products.
I remember reporting an issue that I don't know if it was fixed, I just sold it off.

When initializing and working with the project all was good.
When loading project at another time - all Analog Lab level were down by 12dB.

Not until loading gui on each instance the level was restored.

All individual synth licenses were good - it was only through the Analog Lab instances this occured.

But not related to only shifting to rendering - but might be related if reloading a project later for rendering - or mixing at all actually.

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outteh
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by outteh » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:52 am

garyk wrote:The difference in the mixed file is the levels of some of the instruments. They are very pronounced when mixing, but end up in the background in the .wav file.
As an experiment, you could remove any effects from the instruments that sound low and mixdown again. This might help to isolate whether it is an efects issue or something else.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by Acoustica Greg » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:44 am

Hi,

Yes, what Tom said. The reason I ask that people mix down to the same sample rate as the project's sample rate is that some plugins can't handle a sample rate change on mix down. Since that doesn't seem to be the issue in this case, we'd need to narrow the problem down further in order to find a solution.

Greg

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by Acoustica Greg » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:07 am

Hi,

Dan pointed out one other thing to check: are you mixing down to a mono audio file? It's possible that there could be some kind of phase cancellation issue if that were the case.

Greg

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AHornsby
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by AHornsby » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:01 am

I revisited this issue on my own computer. I generated a 10kHz simple sine wave @ -12 dB in an audio editor and saved it to a wav file. It played thru the media player fine but when imported into MC and played, it was more like 2 separate tones. When mixed down again from MC to a wav it sounded all right. When opened again into the audio editor, it looked and sounded fine.
Attachments
10kHz.zip
10 kHz simple sine wave @ -12 dB
(39.81 KiB) Downloaded 59 times

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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by clavguy » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:43 am

Larioso wrote:I remembered one thing more:
Are you using Arturia Analog Lab or their products.
This is what he said
garyk wrote:Thanks everyone for your input. Nothing special about the project:

1. All settings are Mixcraft 7 defaults based on the upgrade installation
2. Sample rate is 44.100 bit depth is 32
3. All native Mixcraft virtual instruments
4. All native Mixcraft FX (in this case, Acoutica reverb and delay)
5. No output tracks
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dirtyslim69
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Re: Mix Down To WAV Resulting File Sounds Different than Pro

Post by dirtyslim69 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:36 pm

I am brand new to mixcraft myself. I just got it about a month ago and did my first mixdown the other day. I have been looking all over trying to figure this out. I am having the same issue when it comes to mixdown to a wav file. I did a mixdown to an WMA and sounds just like my project but with a wave, my voice sounds okay, kick sounds okay, everything else just seems off to high and crisp. Even my snare clap sounds like a high hat now! I don't understand why doing a mixdown with a WAV makes a difference yet any other format sounds just like my project. :shock:

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