Best way to record live through 2i2?

[martinweeks]

Hi Folks,

Finally got my focusrite 2i2 interface and am loving it. But My addled brain still gets all confused when it comes to routing sound sources to and from...
Just finished watching the video on: Output Bus Routing but am still confused. Here's the scenario

(I hate click tracks) so more often than not I will when creating an arrangement (using my guitar line in through the 2i2..) instead of the boring and annoying click click click, I will just slap a simple kick snare loop into a track to keep time and help me to hear the rhythm "Breath" while I'm playing live.

2i2 has a manual switch on it for direct monitoring. But do I need to use the output bus features of MC instead so I can properly hear the drum loop played back through the headphones (plugged into the 2i2) or am I going about this all wrong.

I'm new to interfaces and under the weather tonight so I'm just putting out the question to get some research before I start getting radical with the interface. The 2i2 sounds great!! I did some basic acoustic guitar recording last night (no drums or anything) and their "Scarlett" Suite of plug ins worked wonderfully. Made the Ovation sound just as good line in as it does when miked. And these guitars have always sounded crappy when lined in. but sound great ala natural.

Thanks for the input in advance. Now it's time to take some Theraflu and go to bed. Good night all.

Marty

[Juno]

You have 2 ways to monitor. You can monitor the dry signal, that is the guitar sound before it's been send to Mixcraft. And you can monitor the wet signal, that's the sound after MC has done what it's doing.

It's mostly used to reduce latency. You don't need a separate output bus for this.

In your case, create your drum track as you would. Make an audio track for your guitar recording. If you set the Focusrite to direct monitoring, you hear zero latency if you play along. You'll hear just the dry signal. This has no effect on the actual recording.
The signal your guitar sends to the Focusrite then goes directly to the headphones/Line OUT and also to Mixcraft. So, you must set the audio track's monitoring to OFF in MC (or hear yourself twice with an echo: one time the dry signal, and one time the signal as MC sends it back to the Focusrite with a bit of latency).

You may also set direct monitoring on the Focusrite to OFF, and then set monitoring the audio track in MC to ON. You will hear your guitar with all fx that you have set in MC. You will have some latency this way. You play your guitar on what you feel is the right moment, but you hear it slightly later. Many people find this disturbing. If you still record like this, you probably have to adjust the starting points of the recorded audio clip afterwards.

Note: In that case, most of the time they all have the same latency. Usually when i have done something like this, i select all the clips while i listen to and position one of them (the others will then move the same amount, as long as they're selected).

Hope you have a better idea now, and feel better soon!

[Mark Bliss]

There's several "layers" to this question, and some are not really clear to me.

First lets try to "standardize" some terminology.
You said you hate "click tracks" when what I suspect you mean is you hate the metronome sound? Using a drum loop or creating a basic drum track instead is common, and something I prefer as well. (And by coincidence the subject of something I am working on!) But I would still call it a "click track." Hopefully that will reduce confusion going forward.

You also wrote about your guitar input as "line in" when you might not mean "line in"..... (Again, just to reduce confusion.)

And I suspect part of your question just isn't clearly asked. You mention using the phones AND monitors. Now normally you wouldn't do that right? Except in a setting where you wanted a headphone mix with a click track, and a main mix without?

I have done this in another life with a 16 channel mixer, PA system, Snake cable, Stage full of gear.... But! I must admit up front I have yet to do this with a DAW and interface, so I can only use some imagination.

Marty, If I am correct in my assumption that this is part of your question, and unless I am missing something, I think the best way to do this is going to require at minimum a small hardware mixer and an interface with a few more I/O channels.

And if I am wrong.... Hopefully someone who has done it will correct me. Of course that will require another lengthy, wordy, "routing description that gives me a headache" reply.

Go!

[Rolling Estonian]

I think it's as simple as having a track with your drum, and recording your guitar on another track. Yes, plug your headphones into 2i2 and hit monitor button on guitar track.

M

[Mark Bliss]

I may be interpreting the question wrong but I thought he was wanting something else.

We'll have to see if Marty can clarify his question.

And Marty, bottom line, you need to experiment and learn from it I think?

[Acoustica Greg]

HI,

The output bus would come into play if you wanted to send the click track to a different output device, as has been mentioned. Otherwise, you don't need an output bus track for this.

Greg

[Juno]

After reading it again, i think Mark is right and the OP wants to hear the drums in headphones but not on speakers. But we'll see.

[FlyingsCool]

I've been having trouble getting proper routings with my Focusrite 6i6.

In my case, my girlfriend hates singing without reverb. But I'd rather add it as an insert and not have it as part of the input signal.

I have had a really hard time figuring out how to route the wet signal out of Mixcraft and into both headphone jacks on the 6i6 without the latency. I think the obvious answer is it's my problem understanding Focusrite's Scarlett MixControl interface. But I've tried all sorts of combinations of settings in it and just haven't found the answer. I suppose I should head on over to the Focusrite forum and get this answered. Just chiming in because I feel the OP's pain....

But I'm interested in this Output Bus thingy, I'll have to check that out....

And I like this idea of a midi drum track for a click track.... thanks

[Juno]

I have had a really hard time figuring out how to route the wet signal out of Mixcraft and into both headphone jacks on the 6i6 without the latency.

As this is someone else's topic, i'll keep it short. But larger sample rates can lower latency significantly. With Mixcraft monitoring ON, and on the Focusrite you can choose the wet signal (i think?).

Otherwise, there're maybe options for the OP that you could use too, i guess, but it depends a little on the OP's clarifications we're waiting for (and he posted he wasn't feeling well).

[martinweeks]

After reading it again, i think Mark is right and the OP wants to hear the drums in headphones but not on speakers. But we'll see.

That is what I'm asking.

So I will still hear the drum track if I'm just monitoring directly through the 2i2? Or as showed in the diagram above do I need to output bus the drum track "Back" to the heaphone monitors in the 2i2? (Don't know why this seems so complicated.) I just want to play/record guitar with the drum track in my headphones so I can play well.

[Mark Bliss]

What diagram do you refer to Marty?

And I am still not sure where we are at here. Maybe I am reading to much into the term "live" in your description.

If you create a drum track of course you can monitor that. If you want to create two separate outputs, one with the click track and one without, I think you are going to be dealing with the limitation of 2 channels on you 2i2. There might be a way, but its not clear what you are doing that is confusing you so, and your description (or the lack thereof) is leaving me confused.

I would still suggest: Read the manual. Plug it in. Try every setting. Learn what they do. Come back and ask concise questions. Were trying to help.

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

I suppose you could try it in Core Audio (WaveRT) (not in exclusive mode), and use the output bus to send audio to another audio device, but you might run into latency problems.

Or, you could get an audio interface with more outputs.

The 2i2 just has left and right outputs. You could have the click track on one side and the rest of the audio on the other side in ASIO mode.

Greg

[martinweeks]

Whoa folks we're getting way beyond what I was asking. But let me bring everyrthing up to present.
yes Mark, I did experiment. All I need to do to hear drum tracks while playing live is use the direct monitor switch on the 2i2. works fine, but as another person commented it's the dry sound with no effects. That's not a problem for me and in fact I think it actually helps in the long run. Without the effects to mask or alter the actual sound, I have to pay much closer attention to levels. By that I mean how "I Play" (or sing) in relation to the background drum track. (Practice practice, rehearse rehearse etc.) The better balance going in means over all better mixing later as the levels are more balanced. Once done then I can go forward with things like reverb and delay.

Now onto the other stuff mentioned. It would on occasion be nice to be able to hear the wet mix of effects, but I believe that will still wind up with latency distractions if trying to record live...I'm not sure personally speaking if I can get the buffering levels low enough on "My Computer" to avoid this...but again it's not that big a deal. I would though like to know if it can be done? Ergo the previous question about making use of bussing so I could bus send the wet effects of the live recording back to the headphones. But it's just not that important...just curious and would be advantageous in a case like mentioned above about a singer who wants to hear the reverb while recording a live vocal.

Now for a new question and it's two fold as I'm still a little dumb about proper use of phantom power. Here goes (calm down it's not that big a deal either.)

I still have my "Hardware" Alesis mini compressor." Used to use it with my PA a long time ago. It requires phantom power. the focusrite has built in phantom power. Can I do the following:
1.) Run condenser mic into compressor (hardware) using the device's phantom power then into ==>into focusrite (with it's phantom power turned on ==>into laptop? I'm afraid of blowing up everything from too much phantom power.
I'm currently checking out a good deal on a CAD Audio GXL2200SSP mic kit (both GXL and Ribbon mic included in the deal) so am wondering about using an outboard condenser for pre before sending signal into MC. Bottom line is vocals always just sound better if you can do the compression before the track. Easy to do with traditional mixing consoles and hardware, but a different thing with the digital "In The Box" computer based recording. Hence the long questions.

Have a good weekend everybody.

Marty

P.S. I'm better now but now my girlfriend has the bug. Arrrgghh!

[martinweeks]

>>What diagram do you refer to Marty?<<

the diagram just above your comment.

[Mark Bliss]

I've read it twice, which is at least one too many times. It made my brain feel like scrambled eggs smothered in cottage cheese. I give. Wish I could help, but I give.