Something I probably did wrong but can't figure out

[martinweeks]

Hi Folks,

Was working on a project and it was coming together nicely. However, it became apparent that I was taxing my CPU pretty heavy (not a lot of tracks but whatever) Machine started sounding like it was eating dry cornflakes.

So I followed advice I'd read previously here and have used in the past, and mixed two of the midi tracks (bass and short lead guitar part) down to audio and froze the midi tracks. I remember reading way back when that, that was a solution when computer was being over used.

But something got weird. At the end of the song I had a the last bass note go for about one measure to fade.

Last night when I first started hearing all the crackling I mixed the entire project down to wav so I could listen and see if there was issues going on or if it was just the computer usage as I explained above. Project was fine. No crackling, no issues outside of a few minor fixes here and there in the vocals. Today was the day to do all the final little things as the project otherwise is done and ready to master.

However, now instead of the last bass note being a smooth to gradual fade out, it seems to have an almost "tremelo" sound to it (just the one last note) and I swear I am not using any kind of "Bells & Whistles" effects outside of a little bit of eq and compression to make the bass warmer.

Is that something to do with the conversion from midi to audio in the track mixdown? Or is it (again) issues inside my laptop?

Thanks.

Marty

P.S. Back to work tomorrow so it might be a day or two before I can respond to any replies.

[Juno]

I mixed two of the midi tracks (bass and short lead guitar part) down to audio and froze the midi tracks

Why?
You should freeze the tracks with the most processing going on, typically tracks with a lot of fx. Freezing a short midi clip will do just about nothing to free up resources.
But if you mix tracks down, why do you then freeze the original? You could just mute it. Did you mute the frozen tracks..?

it seems to have an almost "tremelo" sound to it

I don't understand this description. When is something almost tremelo? It's hard to speculate; better attach/link to the audio, with and without the almost tremolo.

[AHornsby]

Instead of mixing down the midi track you could try recording it to an audio track and then mix it down.

Don't forget to leave plenty of space on the tail end of the recorded track -h

[martinweeks]

I mixed two of the midi tracks (bass and short lead guitar part) down to audio and froze the midi tracks

Why?
You should freeze the tracks with the most processing going on, typically tracks with a lot of fx. Freezing a short midi clip will do just about nothing to free up resources.
But if you mix tracks down, why do you then freeze the original? You could just mute it. Did you mute the frozen tracks..?

it seems to have an almost "tremelo" sound to it

I don't understand this description. When is something almost tremelo? It's hard to speculate; better attach/link to the audio, with and without the almost tremolo.

If I remember correctly Mark Bliss referred me to a MC tutorial that instructed on how to freeze tracks. I thought the whole idea of freezing tracks was to free up CPU Processing availability.

As to attaching files to demonstrate, according to this forum machine the tracks are too large. Sorry. I tried.

>>But if you mix tracks down, why do you then freeze the original? You could just mute it. Did you mute the frozen tracks..?<<
As I said earlier the CPU crackling STOPS when I mixed down the midi to audio and freeze the track. What is the point of muting the midi if that's what is causing the issue. When audio tracks are playing there is no crackling from computer. But the weird tremolo starts occurring.

[Acoustica Greg]

If you mixed the MIDI down to audio, you don't need to freeze it, unless you put a bunch of effects on that new track. Freezing the original MIDI track is basically the same as mixing it down to audio, because that's what freezing does, it makes a wav file out of whatever is on that track.

If the original MIDI track has a CPU-hungry virtual instrument on it, and some CPU-hungry effects on it, freezing it would certainly free up resources.

[Juno]

As I said earlier the CPU crackling STOPS when I mixed down the midi to audio and freeze the track.

No, you did not say this. That's why i ask.

What is the point of muting the midi if that's what is causing the issue.

So you didn't mute it, because even though there's something you can't figure out, there's no point to try this?
Well, the point is only that the track you mixed to audio and the original, frozen but yet unmuted track, both play the same thing. Might this cause some weird sounding double notes that could almost, but not quite, sound entirely unlike a tremolo?

[mick]

Juno wrote:
So you didn't mute it, because even though there's something you can't figure out, there's no point to try this?
Well, the point is only that the track you mixed to audio and the original, frozen but yet unmuted track, both play the same thing. Might this cause some weird sounding double notes that could almost, but not quite, sound entirely unlike a tremolo?

Are the double notes causing a phasing effect maybe?

[Juno]

Are the double notes causing a phasing effect maybe?

I don't know, somehow one of those tracks could be finished ever so slightly faster? Or maybe it was accidentally moved due to snap-to-grid-and-zoom settings? It happens to me. Sometimes it takes half an hour or longer before i have it figured out.

A couple of ms difference can be enough, and it definitely sounds like Martin could have two instances of the same two tracks active, in particular the original midi bass and the mixed down bass (the others are the short guitar tracks, but assuming that's not playing in the fade out).

There's no point to try and reproduce an unknown effect from an unknown set up, though. It could be just his particular combination of sounds and fx.

[Mark Bliss]

If I remember correctly Mark Bliss referred me to a MC tutorial that instructed on how to freeze tracks.

In May, after about six months of struggling with Install, registration and update issues, you were having trouble due to the limitations of an underpowered or outdated laptop you were trying to use. And in a reply to one of your wandering "20 questions rolled into one" thread topics, (titled "channel strips" if you would like to refer back to it), I mentioned in part, that freezing tracks might help free up resources so you could make the best of the situation. I did not refer you to a tutorial, nor did I mention anything about MIDI, muting copies or whatever it is you are now doing.
In that reply I asked for clarification on several things I was trying to answer and help you with, to which I got no reply.

It came up again in at least two more of your threads in June, including the topic "conserving CPU" and it appears there is still some misunderstanding of what it is, how it works or how to use it to your benefit. The replies in this thread pretty clearly describe it, but it seems we wont likely know if it is understood, (based on previous experience).

Are the double notes causing a phasing effect maybe?

I don't know, somehow one of those tracks could be finished ever so slightly faster? Or maybe it was accidentally moved due to snap-to-grid-and-zoom settings? It happens to me. Sometimes it takes half an hour or longer before i have it figured out.

A couple of ms difference can be enough, and it definitely sounds like Martin could have two instances of the same two tracks active, in particular the original midi bass and the mixed down bass (the others are the short guitar tracks, but assuming that's not playing in the fade out).

There's no point to try and reproduce an unknown effect from an unknown set up, though. It could be just his particular combination of sounds and fx.

Seems Micks likely on the right track, but its hard to say. I am having a hard time understanding what he is doing exactly.........

[martinweeks]

>>Juno wrote:
mick wrote:
Are the double notes causing a phasing effect maybe?
I don't know, somehow one of those tracks could be finished ever so slightly faster? Or maybe it was accidentally moved due to snap-to-grid-and-zoom settings? It happens to me. Sometimes it takes half an hour or longer before i have it figured out.
A couple of ms difference can be enough, and it definitely sounds like Martin could have two instances of the same two tracks active, in particular the original midi bass and the mixed down bass (the others are the short guitar tracks, but assuming that's not playing in the fade out).
There's no point to try and reproduce an unknown effect from an unknown set up, though. It could be just his particular combination of sounds and fx.
Seems Micks likely on the right track, but its hard to say. I am having a hard time understanding what he is doing exactly.........<<

Actually a very knowledgeable Producer outside of this forum suggested a similar explanation. And I did say in the subject line of this thread that "I probably did something wrong" He asked me if perhaps when I mixdown/printed the midi track to audio I might have mixed it down to stereo which made sense. I haven't had the time yet to look into that possibility as I am still a bit unsure of when a mix down mixes stereo vs mono. That might explain this issue.

Now Mark I am sorry if you took offense when I said a video. I''ve read your blog posts, I've downloaded your excellent tutorial on aux bussing and send tracks, but I also seek information from other sources outside of mixcraft so maybe I was thinking of a video from someone else...don't get your feathers ruffled. Dude I'm am attempting to learn and will always ask a lot of questions. I'd appreciate it if you'd leave out the snide remarks. This is supposed to be a forum for discussion not a badgering hole.

Since you wish to pull up previous posts, perhaps it's the English language not the music that is causing you this difficulty. For example your comments on the post about quantisizing. (oops sorry about the mispell...sue me) The question posted may have referred to quantisizing, (oops I did it again) but the person's goal was to make the drums more human and less mechanical/machine like. I suggested working more on the arrangement and tonal aspects as that makes a much bigger difference in how "HUMAN" a drum pattern sounds. I suggested using the Omni Sampler because it's internal tonal editing controls are as close to actual hardware "Pre" settings as you can get when working "In The Box". There is only so much mechanical stuff one can do to make a mechanical drum pattern more "Human" and nearly every single successful producer of music (just check YouTube if you wish) has stated constantly that no DAW, plugin, or VST effect processor can fix a bad recording. It was a friendly suggestion made in the spirit of "Helpful" suggestions...nothing more.

I don't have a problem if I'm wrong or something, but I also don't need to be hammered on in a personal manner either. Please leave the personal stuff out of this forum or don't respond to my questions if they bother you that much.

I won't bother you again.

[Mark Bliss]

Marty, I did not take offense, nor did my "feathers get ruffled" by anything you wrote. I was merely attempting to clearly state the facts to clear up where I feel I may have been misquoted.

If you feel I was badgering you or getting too personal I apologize. I agree it may be true, as I did try everything I know how to try to get you to improve your communication so I could better help you.

I have tried very hard, often one on one to help you personally throughout this year and as I have often pointed out, you frequently don't reply to requests for clarification on something, and often have not acknowledged that you "got" what we were trying to discuss. I do not feel it is a language barrier, nor is it a problem with spelling (Yours or mine that was just a silly jab wasn't it?) I have been able to help multiple people here and elsewhere who's language I don't even speak, because they and I took the time and effort to sort it out. While reading many of your posts and replies reminds me of trying to eat tomato soup with a fork. Some little bits get through here and there, but the substance and foundation of the recipe is missing. I have tried to help by pointing that out, but its seems futile as I have detected little effort or improvement.

So you have now indicated I am not helping much more than I suspected, and therefore I will have to give in that I cannot be of much more help. Its not for lack of trying, as I have told myself multiple times I had no more time to keep trying but kept on because I am stubborn and don't accept failure very well. Sorry my efforts have let you down.

But Ill leave you with these tips, too personal or not. If by your questions you display a lack of knowledge on a subject, then follow up in short order by trying to give advice on that subject, people notice. And if you mis-quote is misconstrue what others have written or said while they were trying to help you, they are likely to call you on your error and correct you. People don't like to be corrected. That is natural. But the best way to avoid it is to stick your neck out a little less, or you have to learn to deal with it.

Edit:
Addition, Marty this kind of thing weighs on my mind. And with further thought I realized maybe I didn't make it clear that I accept that our communication problem is my problem, no matter how hard i have tried. And the frustrations expressed are because it is hard for me to accept that I have been unable to be as much help to you as i would wish. My previous comments really were intended to get a little better results in our communications, not be mean. It is simply my nature that when presented with a situations that says "you cant" i buck like a mule and put everything into proving i can. I have to constantly work on accepting my limitations in that regard.
Sometimes I just need to pause, look inward and use some introspect and accept the touchdown isn't a reasonable expectation. Going for the field goal is an acceptable compromise.
When i say "Sorry I was unable to help you as much as I wished" it is sincere, not a passive aggressive swipe. Sorry.