Midi Keyboard Recommendations

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Cobalt
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Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Cobalt »

So I think I will try a midi keyboard and try to learn to do a few things with it. I am looking for recommendations. I know very little about them and the more I read the more confused I get. Here are some of things I am thinking:

1- No more than $200 but would be happy to spend less.

2- USB

3- I don't believe I would use pads but if they are there then they are there.

4- Number of keys. At least 49 but no more than 61. I really don't know the pros and cons of both.

So any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. And of couse I would want it to work in Mixcraft.

Thanks.
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Mark Bliss
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Mark Bliss »

Well first, number of keys.
25 keys is two octaves, 49 is 4, 61 is 5 etc. I first purchased a 25 thinking that since I am going to be pecking away a finger at a time it would be fine. Immediately I knew major and minor chords and realized I could quickly adapt to adding basic bass with the left hand if I had a bigger keyboard.
Keep in mind as well that with a bigger keyboard you can take advantage of "splitting" and assign different ranges to different instruments.
For example, you could have two different instruments set up and switch between the two without changing anything. Or you could conceivably set up drum hits on the left side and a synth or piano on the right. Seemingly endless possibilities.
The 25 key is portable. Plug and play. I'd rather have more I quickly found. But if an idea pops in my head on the parkway, and I have my bag with laptop and keyboard...... :lol: (It's extra funny cause I'm an old fart.) 8)

Recommendations are hard. I could recommend something and it could turn out to be a disaster for one thing.
But here are some thoughts anyway. I was going to suggest that the economical end might be an Alesis V49 or V61. But the customer feedback is pretty bad. (Keep in mind, I never have had a complaint with my Q25.) And I was going to mention that I have seen a lot of customer issues with M-Audio keyboard/controllers, but luck would have it- Customer feedback is pretty good. Cant win here.
So I take the middle ground and offer an out if all else fails.

1: Both Nektar and Novation offer units in the price range you mention and both seem to get pretty good reviews.
2: Order from Sweetwater.com who's generous return policy and customer assistance is phenomenal. I mean consistently beyond expectations!
3: In fact, if in doubt call them. Ask for Ryan Murray. Tell him I referred you. Ask for his recommendation. If his disagrees with mine, take his. He has NEVER let me down and he ALWAYS gives me an honest evaluation, even if it costs him the sale. Good people.
Stay in tune, Mark

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Tranceprod Dan
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Tranceprod Dan »

I recommend getting a device with at the very least 1 mod wheel and a pitch wheel. My current keyboard is just some 99 buck yamaha cheapy I picked up about 10 years ago before I was even really producing in DAWs and basically the only thing I wish it had was those 2 things.

Another thing to consider when buying is whether you want synth action keys or weighted/semi weighted. This will depend on what is going to be comfortable for you when making/playing whatever it is you do.
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mick
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by mick »

I have the Nektar LX61 that Mark mentions and have no complaints and the mk2 looks even better, they do models with and without the knobs and sliders and the transport controls can be mapped to the Mixcraft ones. The only issue I had was finding a keyboard dynamic setting for piano but discovered the use of a compressor solves that, this could be an issue with any keyboard so its something to bear in mind. However, I'm using the Sonivox 88 piano that goes nicely with the Nektar.
http://www.nektartech.com/

Also, I would look at the Roland keyboard range if you need midi out and an expression pedal socket.
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Ajgi
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Ajgi »

As long as you get something with velocity sensitive keys, a pitch bend and a modwheel you'll be sweet. Another thing I'd recommend is something with a few extra programmable faders, these can be very useful if you want to control more than one paramater while playing (maybe filter cutoff and the normal modwheel's vibrato effect).
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Acoustica Greg »

Hi,

If you can go down to Guitar Center or your favorite music equipment store and get your hands on some MIDI controller keyboards, that might help you make a decision based on how the keys respond and so on.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Check out our tutorial videos on YouTube: Mixcraft 10 University 101
Cobalt
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Cobalt »

Thanks everyone, I find this very helpful. Does it matter that my interface has Midi Inputs? Most keyboards I looked at only have USB connectivity. Greg, I would love to go to Guitar Center in Reno but I may never get back home again!

Here is one that I bookmarked and it seems to have everything mentioned. I will still be looking more though.

Since Im very dumb on this I am going to ask a question that may not be the brightest. Mixcraft has Midi instruments in it so I know a keyboard like this will control them. Does the keyboard also come with it's own midi sounds onboard?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LaunchK2-61
mick
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by mick »

There's No onboard midi sounds on a midi keyboard controller you need a synthesizer. The keyboard transmits INFORMATION that the Acoustica instruments convert to sounds, The transmitted midi data will trigger a flute or piano or synth etc and things such as the mod wheel or sliders and knobs can be mapped to trigger CC messages / instructions that modifies the chosen sound such as a filter on a synth.
Torton5
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Torton5 »

Key action is important when starting out, if you get a piano action, that is the worst for use as a multi instrument midi controller. I have the launchkey 61 you are looking at, I found the key action to be right for me. I can do drums, bass, synth and piano (sort of!).

All the other stuff is a waste, don't forget this keyboard was made for Ableton live. Sure you can map this and that but I've not had much success with this in Mixcraft. For one reason or another, the faders and pots etc are useless in real world DAW control. Also, you do not really need pads at all, you can use the keys, I've not had any luck with the pads acting as drum pads anyway, remember, they are primarily for panels in Ableton live.

If I could get a keyboard with key action like this one but with no junk on it then I would be happy. You only really need the right key action, 49 keys is fine to start with if you do not know the keyboard, 61 might seem a bit overwhelming or not. Then you need USB plug and play (no drivers required) a mod and pitch wheel and a sustain pedal input and a cheap bag to put it in when not using, then you are good to go.

Let whomever you buy it off know you do not want heavy piano action. Even synth action will be better for what you want to do with it.
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Rolling Estonian
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Rolling Estonian »

Torton5 wrote:Sure you can map this and that but I've not had much success with this in Mixcraft. For one reason or another, the faders and pots etc are useless in real world DAW control. Also, you do not really need pads at all, you can use the keys, I've not had any luck with the pads acting as drum pads anyway, remember, they are primarily for panels in Ableton live.
I've had a few midi keyboards and control surfaces over the years and have yet to find one that doesn't work with MC. MC midi learn is excellent and if you know how to assign cc parameters to the faders, knobs and pads with the software provided by the device manufacturer you shouldn't have any issues. Just because Novation markets some of it's products as Ableton plug and play doesn't mean that they won't work with MC or any other DAW. In fact, the Novation Launch series is a favorite among some of the members here.

M
Torton5
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Torton5 »

How do they do something really simple like just changing to another track then? I posted this problem on another thread and there was no solution offered, someone else also confirmed in that thread that it wasn't possible if you run kontakt instruments or any VST that Mixcraft automatically generates stereo out child tracks for.

The faders and knobs map to the first 8 tracks. If you run a kontakt instrument in any of those tracks, stereo out child tracks are generated automatically. Now your faders and pots are going to include those tracks in the first 8, they no longer correspond to the main track header assignments. I don't know how other DAWS do it because I've not used this keyboard with them but i might give it a try tonight just to see what happens.

I spent ages assigning midi learn parameters to each function on each track but then it all goes to hell because of this. I found this situation to be unworkable, so I've either done something wrong or others are also using workarounds.

Also, I couldn't get useable velocities from the drum pads that I don't think are drum pads, I think they are used to select the panels in Ableton live, these panels do not work with Mixcraft, the LED's do not light up at all, my understanding is that these function only in Ableton live and no other DAW.
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Acoustica Greg »

Torton5 wrote:How do they do something really simple like just changing to another track then? I posted this problem on another thread and there was no solution offered, someone else also confirmed in that thread that it wasn't possible if you run kontakt instruments or any VST that Mixcraft automatically generates stereo out child tracks for.

The faders and knobs map to the first 8 tracks. If you run a kontakt instrument in any of those tracks, stereo out child tracks are generated automatically. Now your faders and pots are going to include those tracks in the first 8, they no longer correspond to the main track header assignments. I don't know how other DAWS do it because I've not used this keyboard with them but i might give it a try tonight just to see what happens.

I spent ages assigning midi learn parameters to each function on each track but then it all goes to hell because of this. I found this situation to be unworkable, so I've either done something wrong or others are also using workarounds.

Also, I couldn't get useable velocities from the drum pads that I don't think are drum pads, I think they are used to select the panels in Ableton live, these panels do not work with Mixcraft, the LED's do not light up at all, my understanding is that these function only in Ableton live and no other DAW.
Hi,

Click on the Mix menu and select "MIDI Control Surface." Choose Bank Controls and you can then map your controller to change which 8 tracks are being controlled with the faders.
MIDI Control Surface Bank Controls
MIDI Control Surface Bank Controls
bankcontrols.png (24.84 KiB) Viewed 14032 times
In regard to the other problem, the pads on the Launchkey 61 are not primarily designed to be drum pads, they are supposed to be clip launchers for Ableton, but you can also use them to launch clips in Mixcraft 7's Performance Panel. If you can't get them to map correctly, you can try this: download this file Launchkey 49 MK21.ini and place it into this folder:

C:\ProgramData\Acoustica\Mixcraft\ButtonControllers

Then go into Mixcraft's Control Surface preferences, and select the Launch Key 49 MK2 controller (I know you have the 61), set the Input and the Output to the correct options for your keyboard and see if that allows you to use the pads with Mixcraft's performance panel. They should light up and everything.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Check out our tutorial videos on YouTube: Mixcraft 10 University 101
Cobalt
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Cobalt »

I appreciate all the responses but I have to admit that there are some terms that I do not have a clue about. My main use is this. I do a lot of cover songs as a hobby and record them. I only play guitar. If I was doing a song, let's say Johny Cash's Ring of Fire which has a small trumpet part. My idea was that I could find a trumpet in Mixcraft and use a midi keyboard to control the notes and add to the recording. Am I correct in this?

I do have another question. Can I use a regular keyboard to control the midi instruments in Mixcraft? My Focusrite has midi inputs so if I had a regular keyboard with midi outputs would that work to control the midi instruments in Mixcraft also? I saw a regular Yamaha keyboard that had a lot of instruments onboard that you could play on it's own also but the only output it had was headphones so I know that would not work.
Torton5
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Torton5 »

Acoustica Greg wrote:Click on the Mix menu and select "MIDI Control Surface." Choose Bank Controls and you can then map your controller to change which 8 tracks are being controlled with the faders.
Thanks Greg, this was the response I got in the other thread as well when I posted it, the issue isn't moving banks of tracks, say you have drums on 1, bass on 2 and keyboards on 3. so your midi learn has that all mapped out everything is sweet. The first 3 tracks line up with the first 3 instruments.

Now you insert Kontakt instruments and Mixcraft automatically generates 2 child stereo outputs for each track in addition to the original track itself. (this cannot be stopped).

so now the first 3 faders etc default to drums 1 (main track) and drums left 2, drums right 3, (child tracks). The second 3 to bass 4, bass left 5, bass right 4 etc. This is not workable for me, having 3 faders/knobs being taken up by each instrument.

As for the other stuff, thanks for the file, I'll try it out when I get home. It would be pretty cool if I can get the pads to light and use them in performance panel. Mine is the mark ii as well, so it will be very pretty if this works.
Cobalt wrote:My idea was that I could find a trumpet in Mixcraft and use a midi keyboard to control the notes and add to the recording. Am I correct in this?
Yes. The midi keyboard will play whatever instrument you assign to it in Mixcraft, you can then record that instrument by playing it on the keyboard and recording in Mixcraft, just like you would record an audio source.
Cobalt wrote: Can I use a regular keyboard to control the midi instruments in Mixcraft?


Yes, if your audio interface has a midi in then you can attach the midi out from your keyboard to the audio interface midi in using a midi cable. You can play any keyboard or piano or synth into Mixcraft like this, as long as it has a midi out and you have a midi interface with the computer. The only thing is that the midi interface does not supply power, so you will have to power the keyboard from another source. Most of these types of keyboards have wall plug power adapters anyway.

The USB midi keyboards can get their power from the USB cable usually, as well as transfer midi notes in the same way a midi cable does.

You can also use the headphone output from a keyboard and plug that into your audio interface if it has line inputs on the interface as headphone out is usually a line level signal. This would be the same as when you plug in a guitar cable to the interface to record. This would be an audio recording though because you are recording the raw audio coming from the keyboard/guitar.
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Rolling Estonian
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Re: Midi Keyboard Recommendations

Post by Rolling Estonian »

When I open EZDrummer2 in MC it opens a main track and like 16 child tracks which take up those midi controllers. I just put my drums last when needed so all of the child tracks won't be an issue.

As for your pads lighting up, you'll need to go into the software of the keyboard and configure it to do that. I have a Korg Nanokontrol2 that I set up to have the buttons light up when I pressed them, it should be a rather straight forward fix.

M
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