Does MX8 allow VST control of external MIDI hardware?

[BillB]

I think the answer is probably no - at least that was the case with MX7 - but maybe the new 'Route to track' function could help?
The Instrument preset window is the way that MX7/8 routes a track's MIDI to external hardware (via the <External MIDI devices> option). But there appears to be no way to insert MIDI messages generated by a VST to an external unit. The reason anyone would want to do this is to use a VST like ReaControl to send named bank/program change requests to hardware synths etc. I discuss this here:
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewt ... ol#p484610

This is a completely different proposition to Mixcraft's built in Bank/Program change, which is really just a pair of numbers - you need to know what Bank 7 + Patch 99 is going to sound like on your JV-2080 or Nord Rack! With ReaControl, you can use pre-made templates of named patches, or create your own (basic text files saved as .ins, a Cakewalk invention) and other 'big DAWs' like Cubase and Protools have their own version.

So, is there any new way to insert VST MIDI output into a track, or would it be necessary to create one track to hold the ReaControl VST, route its MIDI output to another track (the 'notes' track), and then route that track to an external hardware synth? I'll probably download the demo and try it, but it would be good to know from the Acoustica team what they think. If it is the latter option, that woud be two tracks per hardware device, which would be a bit messy, but would maybe work OK.

As somebody who likes to drive harware synths and FX from the DAW, just for the heck of it (certainly not for ease of use compared to VSTs!), this would turn my attention back from the competition to Mixcraft, which I have always thought is a great DAW.

[BillB]

It seems the answer probably is no after all.

ReaControl only loads into MX8 as a VST effect, not as a VST instrument. If it is selected in the instrument panel and then <Route to track> (say MIDIport1), it doesn't appear to output any MIDI data from its track to the External MIDI track.

Acoustica team, it would be a real benefit if Mixcraft could handle this ReaControl VST (as say Tracktion does) or better still, have native use of (Cakewalk) .ins files in the Instrument panel. Many hardware synths/FX (and some software) have pre-existing .ins files on the web, and they are not hard to make - they are just text files.

Please

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestion! Just making sure, but you know you can do this, correct?

Edit external MIDI device Mixcraft 8.

mx8editexernalMIDIdevice.png (42.6 KiB) Viewed 10363 times

Also, any CC commands that are on a MIDI clip would be sent out to the external MIDI device.

CC messages.

CCmessages.png (75.56 KiB) Viewed 10363 times

Greg

[BillB]

Greg, thank you for the reply. Yes, I do know about the program/bank change message, but as I say in the original post:

ReaControl... is a completely different proposition to Mixcraft's built in Bank/Program change, which is really just a pair of numbers - you need to know what Bank 7 + Patch 99 is going to sound like on your JV-2080 or Nord Rack! With ReaControl, you can use pre-made templates of named patches, or create your own.



This example is for General MIDI, loaded from a reabank file (Reacontrol can load both .ins and .reabank), but I downloaded 100+ .ins files from the Cakewalk website, scores of .reabank files on the Reaper website. There are many others dotted around the web, and making your own isn't difficult. Hardware heaven - well, nearly.

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

Thanks again for the suggestion! I was just making sure that you (and anyone else reading this thread), knew about the existing options.

Greg

[BillB]

Quite right

[bluesplayer]

Actually by now it WOULD be nice if Mixcraft finally utilized a simple name to bank/patch (MSB/SLB) system.
Doesn't have to be elaborate, or worse yet proprietary database like some, but just a simple text list like Sonar's .ins file (which after all is just a simple linear TEXT file). Frankly, no reason Mixcraft could not use/leverage existing Sonar's .ins files as is!


In the MEAN TIME you (we) could ALWAYS make up a simple text editor list that can be called up in a .txt or RTF file for viewing beside, on top, or on another screen (or PRINTED HARD COPY) and referenced as needed to find a sound, and provided right next to it, the correct program/bank (MSB/LSB) info that Mixcraft needs to send out (that you have to type in).

Better yet I'd do in simple FLAT FILE database table (using any of the free Web MS office knock off applications ), or free MS Excel knockoff (spreadsheets are NOT my first choice for searching on multiple criteria) that can be SEARCHED quickly.

Maybe : Patch name and type (piano, brass, ..) and Bank (or "card" a la Korg M1 or SRX card a la XV-5080/XR/Integra 7 … ) next to it the Mixcraft need info Program number and Bank MSB/LSB numbers that Mixcraft needs. Example

=======
SYNTH: PATCH NAME , BANK NAME **** MIXCRAFT: PROG number, BANK MSB/LSB

"Korg M1: AnalogPad 1 , Card 2 MPC-0EX (M02:33) *** Mixcraft: Program 33, Bank MSB/LSB (whatever it is)"
"Korg M1: E.Guitar 2, Card 2 MPC-0EX (M02:33) *** Mixcraft: Program 34, Bank MSB/LSB (whatever it is)"
…
…

OR JUST get the corresponding Sonar .ins file(s), edit and delete all none pertinent, to your situation, extraneous synths and patches and just use it in flat file database, spreadsheet, or text reader.


If, like me you have a lot of many external synths (in my case scores and one, the Alesis Fusion, has unlimited banks and patches per bank it right now sits at almost 200 banks and some banks are over 500 patches I have yet to tame my patch lists) and not just one or two "standard type" synths (i.e., less than a dozen banks banks with the standard 128 or 256 patches per bank) I would highly recommend spending just a little time to learn how to use a simple flat file database (and it's query system) or how to set up a spreadsheet LIKE a flat file database to do this - otherwise you will not be able to find anything in an orderly way or quickly.


EDITED: AFTER THOUGHT

Or you could more easily use Savihost.exe to call up "reacontrolmidi-standalone.dll" and with it (as standalone) load the Sonar .ins file(s) and read the info I was saying (above) and type it into Mixcraft as needed or if you like the Rube Goldberg approach use a combination of MIDOX, Mixcraft, Savihost and reacontrolmidi-standalone.dll to send out program changes

But again this really should be implemented in Mixcraft - just a list of program numbers and bank MSB/LSB is a little arcane

[BillB]

Bluesplayer - I like your "if you can't climb overthe wall then walk around it" attitiude. But the advantage of either ReaControl VST or a native implementation is that, at least in theory, the correct patch info should be sent to your hardware when the (Mixcraft) song loads, just as all other VST settings are restored.

That was the great breakthrough for In-The-Box recording - total paramater recall when a song is reloaded. With the right software implementation, this could also apply to multiple hardware synths/FX on multiple MIDI channels/ports. So having your song settings outside of the DAW can't really replicate that.

Good lateral thinking, just the same - as you say, "in the MEAN TIME..."

[BillB]

It seems the answer probably is no after all.

ReaControl only loads into MX8 as a VST effect, not as a VST instrument. If it is selected in the instrument panel and then <Route to track> (say MIDIport1), it doesn't appear to output any MIDI data from its track to the External MIDI track.

Acoustica team, it would be a real benefit if Mixcraft could handle this ReaControl VST (as say Tracktion does) or better still, have native use of (Cakewalk) .ins files in the Instrument panel. Many hardware synths/FX (and some software) have pre-existing .ins files on the web, and they are not hard to make - they are just text files.

Please

I'm quoting myself by way of asking, is there any update on this aspect of Mixcraft? I keep seeing your great offers and being tempted, but the inability to address hardware via patch scripts like .ins files, or to run ReaControl, is a show-stopper for me, what with me being an old-fashioned hardware sort of guy...
So, any thoughts from Acoustica?

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

No changes in that department at this time.

Greg

[BillB]

Aw shuks

[BillB]

Hi folks. With the release of MX9, thought it was time to re-state the question.
The inability to address hardware via patch scripts like .ins files, or to run ReaControl, is a show-stopper for me, what with me being an old-fashioned MIDI hardware sort of guy...
So, any thoughts from Acoustica?

[BillB]

1 week... bumping

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

You may be the only person who has requested this. The features we added to Mixcraft 9 have been popular requests for a long time.

That said, we're always open to suggestions, so it's possible some future update or upgrade could have this feature.

Greg

[BillB]

Fair enough, Greg. As most people work within the box, it won't be of interest to them.
But there is a bit of a hardware renaissance going on...
Thanks
Bill