Mixcraft 8 Pro. Any major differences between 32 and 64 bit?

[Starship Krupa]

Torton5, it might amuse you to know that as early as beta testing Mixcraft 7 I entered a feature request that there be some indication in the 64-bit Mixcraft Effect Chooser as to whether a given plug-in were 32-bit or 64-bit so that we could better avoid using 32-bit plug-ins in 64-bit Mixcraft.

I wanted to know before I even inserted one in the track or buss whether it was 32-bit or 64-bit. I was really excited that Mixcraft 7 was going to have a 64-bit build and figured that by the time Mixcraft 8 came out I would have my workflow completely 64-bit. Oops.

From the get-go, day 1, whatever, I have always had problems working with the 64-bit build on whatever computer I have been using. At first I chalked it up to my aging Core 2 Duo w/6G and then I upgraded it to a still kinda aging Core 2 Quad, then upped its RAM to 8G, still the minute I would open a project that sailed right along in 32-bit Mixcraft in the 64-bit build I would get tearing, and then more tearing, and it would come down to having to mute some plug-in or other that ran just fine in the 32-bit build.

Several weeks ago a neighbor of mine gave me a surplus i7 tower and I swapped my drives in and....playback of the same projects that play fine in the 32-bit build of Mixcraft 8 on my system exhibit audio tearing when I attempt to play them back in the 64-bit build of Mixcraft 8 on my system. I think at this point I have thrown enough processor and RAM at it that my system can no longer be considered underpowered by any stretch.

I have played too much VST Whack-A-Mole to do much more with 64-bit Mixcraft beyond verify that no, my projects still don't play back too well in it.

The 32-bit version of Mixcraft works a treat so who cares?

Well, I guess the answer is that one guy cares and that guy is you.

Hey, if you really want to throw your energy at the issue, lobby Acoustica to get the bundled plug-ins shipping in 64-bit builds. Yours truly has enhancement requests in the bug database to please update the bundled plug-ins to their 64-bit form where such exist such as the Voxengo, GVST, Marininc, AAS, and GSI ones.

'cause what's holding me back the most is the availability of free (including bundled) VST effects. Someone on these forums has said that G-Sonique, who seem to be a favorite bundling partner of Acoustica's, use a development environment that allows 32-bit builds only (and apparently prevents publishing documentation). That's the biggie. From what I can tell, the wrapper doesn't eat up as many resources when it's hosting a VSTi.

Another thing you can do is keep an eye out for freeware 64-bit VST FX and alert us to them in these fora. Nothing would grab my attention faster than the headline "Freeware 64-bit dbx 165 clone." Once my collection of VST EQ's, compressors and mastering plug-ins reaches 64-bit critical mass, I will be able to let go of my dusty 32-bit Mixcraft and arrive where it's really AT.

[chibear]

Wow! I was wondering why this thread was lasting so long. I guess I'll strap on my hipboots and wade into the BS.

Just a few inacurracies here. I'll address as many as I can over a cup of coffee.

1) The implication that 64 bit DAWs and VSTs are the only type being used in the 'professional' world. If you spend any time on the VI or other electronic composers' forums you will see a lot of non-orchestral composers are still using 32 bit systems. Opposingly, a lot of others are using multiple computers in a master-slave relationship via VE Pro. I also work in Digital Performer, a standard for film composers, and it is offered in both 64 and 32 bit versions.

2) The statement that you cannot run large orchestra projects on a 32 bit DAW is totally erroneous. Back in 32 bit Mixcraft 6 I was running projects in excess of 20 GB (tested to 55GB) using jBridge. There is a large thread somewhere on the this board describing my use and testing process.

cup's empty, end of first fact check.

[Mark Bliss]

I guess I'll strap on my hipboots and wade into the BS.

Nothing worth the time IMO Clyde. I'd suggest just about anything you could find to do would be more productive.
Yoga, make a batch of cookies, mow the lawn.......

[freightgod]

I'm running 8Pro 64 bit right now. 8 gig ram, no idea what processor, but it's ancient. Anyhoo, working on a project now running 8 or more instances of 32 bit Miroslav Philharmonik, using not tons of effects but almost all 32 bit...a few vocal tracks...I have no complaints at all. Real Life Testimonial, hand to heart.

[Starship Krupa]

I'm running 8Pro 64 bit right now. 8 gig ram, no idea what processor, but it's ancient. Anyhoo, working on a project now running 8 or more instances of 32 bit Miroslav Philharmonik, using not tons of effects but almost all 32 bit...a few vocal tracks...I have no complaints at all. Real Life Testimonial, hand to heart.

It really makes me wonder if there is something about my configuration, either video or audio or something, that just hates 64-bit operation.

I know that at least in the past, Mitchell Sigman, the guy who writes the manual and does the video blog was using the same audio interfaces that I do, Presonus FP10's. I don't know if he still does. My video card is an ATI 5770, again not the newest, but a far sight better than an onboard chip.

Why do I still get farty audio running 64-bit Mixcraft on my decent system, with the same buffer setting that works a treat running the 32-bit build?

[Torton5]

Just a few inacurracies here. I'll address as many as I can over a cup of coffee.

1) The implication that 64 bit DAWs and VSTs are the only type being used in the 'professional' world. If you spend any time on the VI or other electronic composers' forums you will see a lot of non-orchestral composers are still using 32 bit systems. Opposingly, a lot of others are using multiple computers in a master-slave relationship via VE Pro. I also work in Digital Performer, a standard for film composers, and it is offered in both 64 and 32 bit versions.

2) The statement that you cannot run large orchestra projects on a 32 bit DAW is totally erroneous. Back in 32 bit Mixcraft 6 I was running projects in excess of 20 GB (tested to 55GB) using jBridge. There is a large thread somewhere on the this board describing my use and testing process.

The first thing might be to spell "inaccurracies" correctly, it is spelled "inaccuracies".....one r. Are you sure that's coffee your drinking?

1) Well I guess it depends on what you class as "professional". If you think "professional" means a bunch of dope smoking hippies sitting around trying to imitate Bach on a midi step sequencer, then I would agree with you. My concept of "professional" is someone who earns a living from what they do.

I have worked as a professional, cutting video on an Avid system for 5 years and as a professional musician for 4 years. I have also done these things part-time for longer, a "part-time professional". I've also done other media based jobs and have seen enough of the industry to know that professional audio and video production houses do not use 32 bit operating systems or 32 bit audio or video applications. It's 64 bit through and through. Mostly native, with no 32 bit plugins at all. But some still have them if they are running a DAW with a bridge. They use hardware acceleration as well that isn't even available for 32 bit. All sorts of RAID configurations and what not, I should imagine it's all switched to SSD's now.

You would probably have to go back 8 years or more to even find a 32 bit production house.

They use Avid/pro tools systems, Final cut/Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Studio One and others, also Digital Performer when as of version 8 it was available for Mac and Windows. But none of these in 32 bit.

I also ran a short filmaking group for filmmakers with more than 1500 members, you would find a mix of cooked up systems there but everyone wanted 64 bit everything if they could afford it and that was 10 years ago.

I wont go into the reasons why, if I haven't made my point by now, I am just wasting my breath.

2)Who made this statement? You seem to be saying I have but I cannot find that anywhere. All I can find is:

"But if you have 64 bit Mixcraft, it can use more ram and you can load larger samples, say for a full orchestra and that will sound better and more authentic than what you could load onto a 32 bit Mixcraft. Is this correct?"

I believe that is what I actually said. The issue was that 64 bit Mixcraft can sound better for heavy samples like orchestral samples. It's impressive what you did on a 32 bit system but you eventually upgraded to 64 bit didn't you? That proves the point I am trying to make, you upgraded so you could get a better sound with even heavier samples. Unless your trying to tell me that you upgraded to 64 bit to make your music sound worse. That would be unusual for a musician.

It seems like some of your "fact checking" actually needs to be fact checked itself. If you are going to quote someone, there is the quote button, although I can't work out how to get it to display a name. Good luck there.

The 32-bit version of Mixcraft works a treat so who cares?

Well, I guess the answer is that one guy cares and that guy is you.

[/quote]

Yes, I get the joke but the reality may be different. Lets have a quick count on this thread.

In the blue corner, primarily using 32 bit:
Mark Bliss
Starship Krupa
Ian craig (both)

In the red corner, using 64 bit:
Torton5
MXCRFT864
mick
freightgod
Ian Craig (both)
Chibear

Not sure:
Rolling Estonian
Acoustica Greg


Oh dear! Just because you and Mark are the loudest, doesn't actually mean you have the numbers

I suggest a poll to resolve the issue.

Thanks for that other info Starship, I will look into that. I think it's worth Acoustica spending the money to update it's plugins to 64 bit because I believe most of it's customers, especially from this point will be more interested in the 64 bit version than the 32 bit version. They are automatically going to be drawn more towards 64 bit plugins.

I don't know why you are experiencing problems, when we switched over to 64 bit, we had to remove all the plugins, save and transfer the projects to the 64 bit DAW and then reinstall all the 64 bit plugin duplicates or equivalents. I am wondering if you could do something like this on one of your projects just to see if it's the bridge issue causing the problems.

There's also something else missing from this debate as well, 64 bit is sexy! 32 bit is like that one night stand you don't really want to tell anyone about.

[MXCRFT864]

Come on guys, no need to carry on. Bottom line is whichever version works best in allowing you to do whatever you're trying to accomplish with your music is the version for you. This thread should not be about personal preference.

Some projects won't need 64bit processing power, plug-ins, and extra RAM; but some will. And either way, we have both 32bit and 64bit versions at our disposal so Mixcraft's got us covered.

Sounds like the only real problem you can have with running the 64bit version is if you're using a computer that is dualcore or less and using too many 32bit plugins will further slowdown the CPU.

[Mark Bliss]

Hi,

Cross posted with Mark.

Thanks for the suggestion, but let's back up here a second and ask the question: how is 64-bit Mixcraft 8.0 build 380 or higher working for you in this regard? Are you personally noticing that you have performance problems with 64-bit but not 32-bit?

The other issue with 64-bit that sometimes occurs, and hasn't been discussed here, is that some 64-bit audio drivers are not very well programmed.

Greg

Though the question wasn't directed specifically at me, perhaps this clarification will help for anyone who reads this and cares.... you know, about facts, reality, etc.

As I stated early on in this thread, I continue to run both side by side for evaluation.
As I have since.... (we were beta testing MX7 I think? Its been a couple of years.) Whenever 64 bit was first an option.

Just to correct misquotes on this and many other points throughout this thread:

Greg, MX8 obviously is working far better in this regard and many others, and it seems, especially since around the time the public version was released, as compared to some early beta versions we were testing. Cant be certain as I was jumping around between various projects and versions. Still am. In fact I am taking a nostalgic trip back to v7 right now due to collaboration needs.
Another factor: naturally in my newer projects is that over time I have migrated to newer plug-in collections simultaneously. New projects working in 64 bit, with those newer plug ins I have purchased are working just swell as one would expect.

Trying to run some old projects that used old plug-ins loaded into the 64 bit host have indeed given me some issues. Again, no surprise. Based on that and feedback from others and confirmation from you (Greg) I suggested to the OP on the original topic that some people under some circumstances may find 32 to run more reliably.

MX8 is very nice, and I am proud of my minor involvement from the start. Thanks to everyone involved we have some great new developments, and I look forward to what's yet to come.

And thank you MXCRFT864, if for nothing else than being a good sport about what happened to this thread. Sorry I didn't recognize the real issue sooner. I'm done.

Excuse any spelling or grammar that doesn't meet professional standards, but I was just focused on being factual.

[tjdover]

Throwing in my two cents because...reasons.

Using 64-bit Mixcraft on a 64-bit OS makes sense. Using the latest tech makes sense.

However...

Most of the people here are not "professionals" (i.e. we don't make our living from it). If I was a professional, I'd expect my company to foot the bill for the 64-bit bling to have the "very best" tools. The problem with being a professional? You must also sell yourself. Status is very important in "the biz" and without it, clients will overlook you. Personally, I love using the latest tech because I'm admittedly a Techno-Junky. I want to have all the same ability and tools that the "professionals" have because I like it that way. Does that mean everyone needs to have the "64-bit status" sticker on their butts? Nope...I want one because I like them. They look good on my butt.

The big BUT here, is that if we can't afford the 64-bit bling, we need to be able to use what works, what is free, and what offers the simplest solution. Yes, I'd LOVE to see Acoustica provide a complete set of 64-bit VSTs to balance out their 32-bit roster. Can they do that? I have no idea, but a man can dream. In lieu of this, the 32-bit Mixcraft is an option that most of us non-professionals can use with no consequence. I say "most" because there are those that need more...I just don't know that I'm one of them.

I have been a parody artist for 10 years and have found that trying to mimic someone else's work can often require many VST FX put in just the right order and in just the right place (Sub-Mix level vs Track level). The more VST's you use, the more memory and processing power you need to get the sound close enough to be passable. Do I NEED 64-bit for that? Honestly, I'm not sure. I couldn't even tell you where to look to figure that out. But I still WANT to use the best tech I can get, so having a fully 64-bit installation of Mixcraft (no 32-bit anything) would be most welcome.

In the end, I'll use what works and gets me to my destination. I want to get there in a decked out Cadillac, but I can only afford a modest Lexus. Nothing wrong with a Lexus, its still stylish, has a lot of features but doesn't quite have the status of that Cadillac. Am I going to let some "industry professional" tell me I'm not good enough because I don't have the Cadillac? Sure...I'll let them, but I will laugh, walk away, and call them a snob under my breath. I may say it to their face if I was inclined to be childish, but why stoop to their level?

Have fun doing what you do...and look forward to the day that Acoustica will offer a 100% 64-bit package to make having that Cadillac practical. On that day, even us non-professional types can put that "64-Bit Shop" title over our heads.

Cheers!