Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

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Starship Krupa
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Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Starship Krupa » Wed May 03, 2017 3:31 am

I downloaded Pecheneg Tremolo (http://pechenegfx.blogspot.de/2014/11/t ... emolo.html) and installed it as I have installed countless other VST plug-ins, by copying the .dll's to my Vstplugins and VST64 folders as appropriate.

However, when I try to add it to a track or see it in the Plug-In Manager, it just ain't there. Plug-in Manager doesn't have it on the disabled list, nothing.

I have these lines in my Mixcraft log:

"02:59:36 [640 mils] : VST: C:\VSTPlugins\PechenegTremolo.dll
02:59:36 [640 mils] : VST found in registry.
02:59:36 [640 mils] : {49706566-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
02:59:36 [640 mils] : Duplicate VST Effect: C:\VSTPlugins\PechenegTremolo.dll"

I have tried dragging and dropping the .dll from the folder to the Mixcraft window and Mixcraft just pops a dialog saying that the plug-in is already there.

I tried loading it into Cantabile and Cantabile loaded it just fine.

Suggestions?
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed May 03, 2017 9:46 am

Hi,

I installed the 64-bit version and its working for me. If you go into Manage Plug-Ins, is it listed under Disabled or Unable to Load?

Greg

Edited to add: I downloaded it from here:

http://pechenegfx.org/?ddownload=171
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed May 03, 2017 10:03 am

Maybe there's something else in your log file about that plugin?
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Starship Krupa
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Starship Krupa » Wed May 03, 2017 5:32 pm

Acoustica Greg wrote:If you go into Manage Plug-Ins, is it listed under Disabled or Unable to Load?
Starship Krupa wrote:Plug-in Manager doesn't have it on the disabled list, nothing.
Second place I checked after trying to add it to a track. Not in "Unable to load," not in "Disabled."

I scanned the log file and that is the only reference I could find.

I later downloaded it from their site and got similar results.

Is there somewhere else to look? I vaguely remember an .ini file, but that might have been pre-Plug-in Manager.
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

SteveW
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by SteveW » Thu May 04, 2017 3:29 am

Starship Krupa wrote:I have these lines in my Mixcraft log:

"02:59:36 [640 mils] : VST: C:\VSTPlugins\PechenegTremolo.dll
02:59:36 [640 mils] : VST found in registry.
02:59:36 [640 mils] : {49706566-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
02:59:36 [640 mils] : Duplicate VST Effect: C:\VSTPlugins\PechenegTremolo.dll"
That looks like a duplicate VST ID - maybe the PechenegTremolo plugin has the same ID as another plugin you already have installed.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Acoustica Greg » Thu May 04, 2017 9:20 am

SteveW wrote:That looks like a duplicate VST ID - maybe the PechenegTremolo plugin has the same ID as another plugin you already have installed.
Hi,

Oh, good point. That's probably it. If I load PechenegTemolo, my log file shows Effect ID: fepI

There must be another effect with that ID. We'd actually run into a case in the past where one company used the same VST ID for multiple plugins.

Greg


09:16:49 [922 mils] : VSTInventory - found GUID, isInstrument = 0, DLL is C:\Program Files\VST\PechenegTremolo.dll, bits is 64
09:16:49 [922 mils] : gVSTID set to 1232102758
09:16:49 [922 mils] : Loading VST: C:\Program Files\VST\PechenegTremolo.dll
09:16:49 [922 mils] : Loaded VST.
09:16:50 [210 mils] : Effect ID: fepI
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Starship Krupa » Thu May 04, 2017 2:07 pm

So what can I do if I want to use this plug-in?

Is there a way to identify which plug-in is already using the same ID? Maybe it's something I am not as attached to and am willing to delete in order to be able to use Pecheneg Tremolo.

I searched for "fepl" in my log file and didn't find anything.
-Erik
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2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Acoustica Greg » Thu May 04, 2017 2:10 pm

Hi,

Open up some projects and then search your log file for effect ID: fepI

That's an uppercase i at the end, not an L.

Greg
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SteveW
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by SteveW » Thu May 04, 2017 2:15 pm

Starship Krupa wrote:I searched for "fepl" in my log file and didn't find anything.
Try searching for the ID that Mixcraft generates: {49706566-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}

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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Starship Krupa » Fri May 05, 2017 8:36 pm

Oh this is very interesting.

Turns out there are actually TWO other plug-ins with that ID. I had just not noticed.

One is the Computer Music Magazine Bass Amp, the other is Dimension Plus, which is a Haas Effect thingie, one of many, which is why I hadn't noticed it missing.

I think it would be nice if Mixcraft's Manage Plug-Ins feature could put plug-ins that it was unable to load due to their having the same ID in its "unable to load" category.

As a matter of fact, I shall file an enhancement request bug to that effect.
-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

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Starship Krupa
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Starship Krupa » Fri May 05, 2017 11:10 pm

Oh, as a follow-up, I got rid of the redundant Haas Effect plug and the also redundant amp sim, and Pecheneg Tremolo is reaaaalllly worth the effort!

And I am also wondering if there is a way that Mixcraft could somehow make all these VST's play nice despite the fact that they use the same ID. Is the ID a thing that the developers get from Steinberg or is it generated by a hash or something?
-Erik
___________
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2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

SteveW
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by SteveW » Sat May 06, 2017 12:33 am

It's up to developers to come with an ID for their plugins but as far as I know there's no way of telling if a particular ID is already in use. Officially you're supposed to register them with Steinberg but not all developers do this and even if you do there's no guarantee that the IDs you choose haven't been used elesewhere.

These day's I think most developers either pick something obscure and hope no one else has used it or just rely on the fact that most DAWs don't insist on all plugin IDs being unique. I think Mixcraft is unusual in that it strictly enforces the unique ID rule. As more and more plugins get made and Mixcraft becomes more popular this is something that is sure to crop up more frequently so perhaps it's time for the team to consider an alternative to just banning duplicate IDs.

As far as I understand it Mixcraft uses its own 'GUID'-style IDs for each plugin, generated from the actual 4-character ID of the plugin. Perhaps if there is an ID clash the filename of the plugin could be checked to see if it is actually a different plugin or just another installation of the same. If it is different then maybe an alternative ID could be generated to allow it to be treated as unique within Mixcraft.

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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Starship Krupa » Sat May 06, 2017 3:42 pm

SteveW wrote:It's up to developers to come with an ID for their plugins but as far as I know there's no way of telling if a particular ID is already in use. Officially you're supposed to register them with Steinberg but not all developers do this and even if you do there's no guarantee that the IDs you choose haven't been used elsewhere.
It looks like Steinberg make it pretty easy to get a unique ID, but maybe some plug-in developers don't know about it or don't bother with it. It took me 15 seconds of Googling ("vst id") to find their form:

http://service.steinberg.de/databases/p ... n?openForm

Seems odd that people capable of coming up with such a great plug-in as Pecheneg Tremolo wouldn't or couldn't get a proper ID for it. It's also possible that Steinberg's form or its database back end gets stuck at times and hands out duplicates.

My hunch is that Acoustica's being so strict about plug-in ID's may be what allows Mixcraft to so seamlessly switch projects between the 32-bit and 64-bit builds, and that is something I still value highly.

I'm glad that the CM Bass Amp and Dimension Plus are plug-ins that I didn't care about. I might have had to start fiddling about with a hex editor or something.
-Erik
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3.4 GHz i7-3770, 16G RAM, Win 10 64-bit, ATi Radeon HD 5770
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20's, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5, Cakewalk by BandLab

SteveW
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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by SteveW » Sun May 07, 2017 1:15 am

Starship Krupa wrote:It looks like Steinberg make it pretty easy to get a unique ID, but maybe some plug-in developers don't know about it or don't bother with it.
This is exactly the problem. Too many plugin developers either don't know about this or choose not to use it. This form offers unique IDs and will tell you if you try to register an ID that has already been registered but that still won't guarantee uniqueness if another developer has used an ID without registering it.
Starship Krupa wrote:My hunch is that Acoustica's being so strict about plug-in ID's may be what allows Mixcraft to so seamlessly switch projects between the 32-bit and 64-bit builds, and that is something I still value highly.
Most developers will use the same IDs for 32- and 64-bit versions of their plugins so this is mostly what provides compatibilty but I agree that if Mixcraft had to start generating alternative IDs for offending plugins it could cause many issues.

Although in theory a 4-character code should provide enough variations for millions of plugins, the fact that most developers seem to stick to easily typeable codes means that collisions will occur more frequently than they should. Technically Mixcraft does the right thing - plugin IDs are supposed to be unique and it's not unreasonable for them to be ignored if they're not - but the expectation that all plugins will be unique is becoming increasingly unrealistic.

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Re: Pecheneg Tremolo VST won't show up

Post by Acoustica Greg » Mon May 08, 2017 11:04 am

Hi,

Practically speaking, this issue comes up very rarely. It seems like most plugin developers are using unique VST IDs.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
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