latency correction?

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jmpld
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Re: latency correction?

Post by jmpld » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:38 am

aj113 wrote:Firstly, the only reason anybody would wnt low latency is of they are montoring back through the computer. There is no need to do that unless the DAW is atually supplying the sound that is being played, such as a virtual instrument or an amp plugin.
YES! Finally someone understands. I don't feel so stupid anymore.
aj113 wrote:Secondly, you seem to misunderstand the problem. Mixcraft is actually recording late. The recording is offset and out of synch by the number of milliseconds set in the latency settings. As the OP says, this should not happen at all, ever, with any DAW, otherwise recording would be a nightmare.
EXACTLY!
Last edited by jmpld on Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

jmpld
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Re: latency correction?

Post by jmpld » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:00 am

...If I'm getting the OP right, why can't MX or any DAW automatically record and adjust to zero latency automatically...
aj113 wrote:No, you're not. He's simply asking why MC is not placing the clip in the right place in the song, instead of 5ms late. A reasonable question to ask.
YES!.
Mark Bliss wrote: The part I disagree most with the blogger about is his insistence that you shouldnt care about latency. If recording a virtual instrument, you must care. If recording through plug ins and emulations, youre gonna care, etc. Yes this may not apply directly to you here however.
The author stated it clearly under the part about who cares about latency: you only care if you're recording a virtual instrument from a keyboard (or whatever), of if you're trying to monitor your playing through the DAW.
Last edited by jmpld on Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Strativarious
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Re: latency correction?

Post by Strativarious » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:09 am

aj113 wrote:Secondly, you seem to misunderstand the problem. Mixcraft is actually recording late. The recording is offset and out of synch by the number of milliseconds set in the latency settings. As the OP says, this should not happen at all, ever, with any DAW, otherwise recording would be a nightmare.
hi,

I am no expert but isn't this how is supposed to work? Recording is a nightmare if you got high latency. Mixcraft doesn't make any adjustments to the notes/recording and neither supports something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtHJFf6rrG0 as far as i know, if that's what you are asking. Monitoring a no/low latency signal on your headphones and having a different/higher latency in mixcraft seems a no go. Latency hits everything in its path!. If you got high latency, your metronome and the recording will be out of sync.

jmpld
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Re: latency correction?

Post by jmpld » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:21 am

aj113 wrote:The problem here - and the reason that nobody can quite grasp what you are saying - is that MC rarely has this issue. When people record, MC - like all DAWs - places the recording in exactly the right place. What you are experiencing is an anomaly, one I have experienced myself, and still do, but which I have no explanation for, other than I do not think it is a MC issue.
"Anomaly", not "bug"? Hmm. Wonder why I've not run into the problem before in nearly 12 years of recording with Mixcraft with this configuration. Any suggestions for how to fiddle with it? I've ordered a new (cheap) interface, even though my current one has worked fine 12 years. Could it be my computer? (HP Probook 6570B, i5, Win10, 12 GB ram, 500GB Samsung SSD)

Thanks for understanding my point and my problem! If it's not an MX problem, there should be some way I can fix it.
Cheers,
j

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: latency correction?

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:39 am

aj113 wrote:Secondly, you seem to misunderstand the problem. Mixcraft is actually recording late. The recording is offset and out of synch by the number of milliseconds set in the latency settings. As the OP says, this should not happen at all, ever, with any DAW, otherwise recording would be a nightmare.
Hi,

If a person is directly monitoring via hardware, with almost no latency, and also listening to audio that has to be generated with digital-to-analog conversion and possibly pass through latency-ridden effects (due to the required mathematical calculations and processing) - you would do what?

We can't slow down the direct monitoring, because it's bypassing your computer, and you wouldn't want to do that anyway. We're already doing the software stuff at amazing speed, but it does take milliseconds for that processing.

How would you like to see it work, exactly?

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

aj113
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Re: latency correction?

Post by aj113 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:41 am

jmpld wrote:
aj113 wrote:The problem here - and the reason that nobody can quite grasp what you are saying - is that MC rarely has this issue. When people record, MC - like all DAWs - places the recording in exactly the right place. What you are experiencing is an anomaly, one I have experienced myself, and still do, but which I have no explanation for, other than I do not think it is a MC issue.
"Anomaly", not "bug"? Hmm. Wonder why I've not run into the problem before in nearly 12 years of recording with Mixcraft with this configuration. Any suggestions for how to fiddle with it? I've ordered a new (cheap) interface, even though my current one has worked fine 12 years. Could it be my computer? (HP Probook 6570B, i5, Win10, 12 GB ram, 500GB Samsung SSD)

Thanks for understanding my point and my problem! If it's not an MX problem, there should be some way I can fix it.
Cheers,
j
Well the fact that virtually nobody else has the problem (except me on occasion) shows that it is localised to your setup. So it's a good start to get a new interface, at least that well help to isolate the problem. Just a thought, have you tried a different USB cable?

aj113
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Re: latency correction?

Post by aj113 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:47 am

Acoustica Greg wrote:...If a person is directly monitoring via hardware, with almost no latency, and also listening to audio that has to be generated with digital-to-analog conversion and possibly pass through latency-ridden effects (due to the required mathematical calculations and processing) - you would do what? ...
You're still not understanding the problem Greg. Forget latency, it's not latency. Forget monitoring, it's nothing to do with that either.

MC is simply recording the OP's guitar out of synch with the rest of the track. After recording, the clip has to be nudged forward manually (to the left) in order to be in synch.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: latency correction?

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:07 am

Hi,

OP wrote:
I have now got it set at 5 ms. and that seems workable.
Is that no longer correct?

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

jmpld
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Re: latency correction?

Post by jmpld » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:09 am

You're still not understanding the problem Greg. Forget latency, it's not latency. Forget monitoring, it's nothing to do with that either.

MC is simply recording the OP's guitar out of synch with the rest of the track. After recording, the clip has to be nudged forward manually (to the left) in order to be in synch.
Yes, that's it. So say my latency is VERY high, for the sake or making my point, 700ms. A DAW should know that it's receiving my guitar playing 700ms late (or maybe twice that amount I guess if it must account for a round trip), and therefore move the clip 700ms (or x2) to the left, as aj said, to put it in synch with the project's metronome. He also said Mixcraft already does this and I am just having a weird experience somehow caused my personal setup. And he's run into too.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: latency correction?

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:11 am

Hi,

But using a latency setting of 5 ms is workable for you?

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

jmpld
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Re: latency correction?

Post by jmpld » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:21 am

Acoustica Greg wrote:OP wrote:
I have now got it set at 5 ms. and that seems workable.
Is that no longer correct?
Yes, although 20ms latency setting is audible to me (I spent some time wondering how my playing could be so sloppy, and playing many retakes, and nudging pieces of clips left) when all the while MX was just recording me late). But I don't think I can hear the 5 ms. Still it bothers me that I recorded with MX for all those years with no synch problem, and can't understand why it crops up now. Just trying to get to the bottom of it.

Thanks to everyone sharing their thoughts. Here's a song recorded with my little setup: https://joelpostrel.com/track/855993/bl ... e_id=98037

jmpld
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Re: latency correction?

Post by jmpld » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:44 pm

aj113 wrote:Well the fact that virtually nobody else has the problem (except me on occasion) shows that it is localised to your setup. So it's a good start to get a new interface, at least that well help to isolate the problem. Just a thought, have you tried a different USB cable?
Oh yeah. I forgot that I had tried this test plugging my mixing board directly into the computer's mic jack, bypassing the USB interface issue altogether, and still got the delayed recording. This is frustrating. Maybe I've just got to try MX on another computer. My old Dell laptop had no problem! grrr...

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outteh
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Re: latency correction?

Post by outteh » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:21 pm

Did some google research and it appears this issue is not unusual. Several DAW's and interfaces suffer from some time delay, not necessarily due to compensation in the software. Adjusting buffer size and latency settings seems to be the advice given across the board to get to the best you can without causing other issues. I suspect that a particular computers hardware is the culprit and probably gets worse over time, hard drives wear down and OS's get cluttered with extra stuff. No DAW software can analyze and compensate for every condition, it simply uses an algorithm based on parameters passed to it.
What's the solution? Clean up your PC best you can and adjust what you can. I have to admit I have never encountered this problem on any of my systems (knock on wood).

aj113
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Re: latency correction?

Post by aj113 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:38 pm

Acoustica Greg wrote:Hi,

But using a latency setting of 5 ms is workable for you?

Greg
In as much as it would be workable for you too. Nobody wants stuff recorded 5ms late. The cumulative effect could be very messy.

jmpld
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Re: latency correction?

Post by jmpld » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:48 pm

aj113 wrote:
Acoustica Greg wrote: But using a latency setting of 5 ms is workable for you?
Greg
aj133 wrote:In as much as it would be workable for you too. Nobody wants stuff recorded 5ms late. The cumulative effect could be very messy.
Yes, I'm afraid that's correct; it's why I allowed as to how it's "workable" rather than saying "perfect!". I will continue to investigate this, as it sounds like for most people MX is not causing a recording delay. I might just be forced into buying a new computer and crossing my fingers. Kind of an expensive test, tho.

Again, the machine I'm using now is not old junk: HP Probook, i5, Samsung 500Gb SSD, Win 10. Yet that old Dell laptop of mine did fine w/MX till it died. Still, it's not far-fetched to suspect the computer in my case.

As always, much thanks to everyone who is picking his brains for me! Thank you, and let me know if you got any new ideas.

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