volume boost?

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Frantiac
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volume boost?

Post by Frantiac » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:39 pm

Hi,

I'm confused as to how insert plugins should be used. I record a mono signal from my guitar into Mixcraft which results in a track recorded in mono. However when I then use Sonalksis FreeG mono as an insert there's a noticeable volume boost which doesn't happen with the stereo version. Same thing with the empty Waves GTR Stomps. There are no other inserts on the track. Does this mean that should I be using stereo inserts on mono tracks ?
ESI Maya 44e soundcard --> Intel G41M dual-core, 8 GB RAM --> Windows 7 Ultimate x64 --> 64-bit Mixcraft 9 Pro Studio

rrichard63
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Re: volume boost?

Post by rrichard63 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:02 pm

Here's what I think is happening, but I'd like to hear from Greg or Eric about this, to make it official. Mixcraft treats mono signals as if they were stereo internally. When you insert a mono plugin, its input is the left and right channels combined. Since you are combining two identical copies of the signal, the input to the plugin includes 6dB of gain. The plugin's output is then sent to both channels -- each one 6dB louder than it was going in (assuming the plugin isn't actually doing anything).

If this is right, then we should all use stereo versions of plugins. The only downside is that some of them (not all) use more CPU than their mono counterparts.

Frantiac
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Frantiac » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:16 am

Yes, that would make sense but I don't know where that leaves me with Waves GTR and its 3 formats: mono, mono-to-stereo and stereo ...

I remember years ago with Cubase that Waves GTR mono-to-stereo had to have the channel insert routing changed to stop the dry signal bypassing the plugin and adding itself to one channel but I can't find that option in Mixcraft.

Also what about plugins like Waves Tune (which I don't have so can't put to the test) - instinctively I would use the mono version on a mono vocal track but would it affect the volume too?

Anyway, as you say, Greg and Eric will have the answers.
ESI Maya 44e soundcard --> Intel G41M dual-core, 8 GB RAM --> Windows 7 Ultimate x64 --> 64-bit Mixcraft 9 Pro Studio

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Acoustica Greg » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:13 pm

Hi,

When you record your guitar, are you arming the track on the left?

Greg
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Frantiac
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Frantiac » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:40 am

Yes I am
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rrichard63
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Re: volume boost?

Post by rrichard63 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:29 am

Frantiac wrote:
Acoustica Greg wrote:When you record your guitar, are you arming the track on the left?

Greg
Yes I am
So was I when I did a crude test before posting earlier.

Frantiac
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Frantiac » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:38 am

I've just realized that the Tuner from Waves GTR 3 is doing it too.
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Frantiac
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Frantiac » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:59 am

Greg, when you asked if I was using the left channel is that a problem? Just to try to get things straight in my head: my soundcard (ESI Maya 44e) has stereo 1/4" jack inputs. When I use a standard guitar lead it's the left channel that works. Should I wire a stereo plug to use the right channel only? Or maybe wire it to use both channels?
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:26 pm

Hi,

No, just arm the track on the left. That will give you a centered mono recording for use in your mix.

Greg
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Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
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Rolling Estonian
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Rolling Estonian » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:25 pm

Pretty much every guitar sim I've used ups the volume when engaged, particularly OD/Distortion. The tuner may automatically up the gain to make sure the notes are coming through loud enough to tune. I'm not going to say this is definitive but it's the way I've always understood it.

M

rrichard63
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Re: volume boost?

Post by rrichard63 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:48 pm

Acoustica Greg wrote: ... No, just arm the track on the left. That will give you a centered mono recording for use in your mix. ...
What does Mixcraft do with mono plugins? Thanks in advance for clarifying this.

Frantiac
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Frantiac » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:40 am

Following Greg's instructions I've armed the left channel and roughly tested the channel input level using the free Naiant VU meters and the mono meter reads quite a bit higher than the stereo one - I would guess at least 6 dB although I don't have the means to do any accurate testing.

I can clearly hear the difference with waves GTR3 - with exactly the same settings the mono and mono/stereo plugins are quite a bit more distorted than the stereo one (which sounds as it should).

I can use a trim plugin to bring the level down so it's not a problem. I'm just curious to know if there's a technical reason for using the stereo version of plugins when there's a choice.
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Acoustica Greg » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Hi,

I logged a bug report on this, but I haven't had any feedback from the software developers.

I tried Freeg and got the same result. Then I tried the DFX monomaker plugin, and there was no volume boost. Not sure what's going on there.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

rrichard63
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Re: volume boost?

Post by rrichard63 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:20 pm

Acoustica Greg wrote: ... I tried the DFX monomaker plugin, and there was no volume boost. Not sure what's going on there.

Greg
Does the DFX monomaker plugin have a stereo input? The name suggests that it might.

As I said earlier, my hypothesis is that a mono track feeding a mono plugin results in 6dB of gain at the plugin input. And that this happens because Mixcraft treats the mono track as stereo (two identical copies) for the purpose of sending signals to plugins.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: volume boost?

Post by Acoustica Greg » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:43 pm

Hi,

Yes, internally everything is stereo, with the same audio on the right and left. The software developers will take a look at this issue when they get a chance.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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