Will Mixcraft 8 work on my older system?

[Mark B]

I’ve been using Mixcraft since 2012, starting with Mixcraft 6 and updating to Mixcraft 7 two years ago. It’s been working great for my little home studio. Big fan.

I’ve yet to upgrade to Mixcraft 8 and have concerns about messing with a set-up that’s running well (with one exception which I’ll mention below in case some savvy musician has a fix).

That said, the features of 8 look good – especially Melodyne – and I’d really like to give it a go.

So, two questions –
1) Will Mixcraft 8 work with the slightly older computer described below? The system requirements statement implies yes, but if anyone has reason to believe otherwise… Put another way, does Mixcraft 8 call for greater computer resources than 7 did?
2) Can I install Mixcraft 8 without overwriting Mixcraft 7 such that I can keep the current set-up in case 8 doesn’t do what I want it to do?

My computer:

Dell Optiplex 980
Intel i5 2 cores 650 @3.20 GHz
4 Gb ram
Windows 7 Pro
Service Pack 1

My other gear:
Presonus Firebox
Mackie 1202 vlz3
Yamaha PA

Other software:
Guitar rig 5

And now, since I’m posting anyway, I’ll just add this other problem that is unrelated to Mixcraft. I am getting hum/interference between my computer and my powered speaker that only happens when my firewire cable is connected between my Presonus box and my computer. I’ve checked and swapped out every cable. I’ve tried to use a 3-prong to 2-prong adapter to see if I could get rid of the hum but have had no success.

I’ve searched online for answers. One person somewhere in another context suggested introducing a firewire 6 to 4 adapter with firewire cables on either side of it to ‘unground’ it, and I’ve ordered the little adapter which will take a month, apparently, to get here. Someone else suggested ungrounding using tape, but I don’t know how to do that. If anyone has lived through something similar in their studio and has a workaround, I’d sure love to get rid of that hum!

Thanks very much in advance.

Mark

[Thomas]

I can't answer all your questions Mark, but your system should be able to run Mixcraft 8. Now it all depends on how you use it and how complex your projects are. Right off the bat, I'd recommend more ram. Try at least 8 GB for better performance. And listed below is Melodyne's system requirements:

Intel or AMD Dual Core processor (Quad Core or better recommended), 4 GB RAM (8 GB or more recommended), Windows 7, 8.1 or 10 (64-bit recommended), ASIO-compatible audio hardware.

[rrichard63]

(1) Yes, you can keep Mixcraft 7 when you install Mixcraft 8. As Thomas said, you might want more RAM, but your other specs should be fine for a substantial number of tracks, effects, etc.

(2) Ground loop hum can be very hard to diagnose and cure. But we'll try.

(a) You said that disconnecting the Firebox from your PC causes the hum to go away. In that situation, how are you getting a signal into the Firebox for testing? Analog input? Digital input? What is the source?

(b) Are the PC, the Firebox and the audio amp plugged into adjacent wall outlets, or are some of them plugged into wall outlets that are on a different circuit breaker? If they are on different circuit breakers, that's a potential source of the problem.

(c) If you can't break a loop on the Firewire side of the circuit, you might be able to break it on the AC power side. This might work:

http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html

Disclaimer: I've never needed to try these myself, I've only read about them. But the theory seems solid.

[Mark Bliss]

Basically a re-phrase of what has already been said:

If you were to use MX8 exactly the same way as you did MX7 you would likely get very similar results. Comparing apples to apples, MX8 may actually perform slightly more efficiently in some areas, slightly more demanding in others. Very little difference IMO.

BUT, for example you are talking about running Melodyne.... Or other differences. That's gonna be a possible apples to oranges comparison. And I suspect a dual core/4G machine is going to be on the edge already, depending on your specific use. I can confirm my dual core/4G machine wouldn't do it justice.

Unfortunatly, the free trial version of MX8 doesnt allow you to fully test this, as that version doesnt have Melodyne. Otherwise I would suggest just trying it out.
And no, the old version isnt overwritten in this case. You can run both 7 and 8 side by side.

[dpaterson]

Hello.

For what it's worth here's my system specs.:

HP ProBook 450 G3
Intel i7 Dual Core (3GHz overclocked)
8GB RAM
7 200RPM HDD
Windows 7 Pro SP1 (tweaked BIG time)
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 Second Gen. (ASIO)
And the rest ...

I don't have any issues with Mixcraft whatsoever (and I have LOADS of resource hungry virtual instruments e.g. SampleTank, Miroslav Philharmonic, MODO Bass, BFD3, Addicitive Drums) (those are the main culprits).

A good way to see if you're going to have issues is to see if you can open and playback the Mixcraft sample projects. Those things have more tracks and effects and what not than I know I personally will ever use!!! If they run fine: you're good to go!!! Put another way: whenever I've made changes to my system those sample projects are my yardstick. As long as they stay working and playback smoothly then I'm a happy camper.

My main (possibly only) reason for getting involved here is Melodyne. I have Melodyne Studio now (upgraded from the Melodyne that comes with Mixcraft). Melodyne (all editions) is a resource hog I'm afraid to say. Wonderful software but don't expect quick and crisp response times with your current configuration i.e. mine works fine but it's by no means quick.

Regards,

Dale.

[Mark B]

(1) Yes, you can keep Mixcraft 7 when you install Mixcraft 8. As Thomas said, you might want more RAM, but your other specs should be fine for a substantial number of tracks, effects, etc.

(2) Ground loop hum can be very hard to diagnose and cure. But we'll try.

(a) You said that disconnecting the Firebox from your PC causes the hum to go away. In that situation, how are you getting a signal into the Firebox for testing? Analog input? Digital input? What is the source?

(b) Are the PC, the Firebox and the audio amp plugged into adjacent wall outlets, or are some of them plugged into wall outlets that are on a different circuit breaker? If they are on different circuit breakers, that's a potential source of the problem.

(c) If you can't break a loop on the Firewire side of the circuit, you might be able to break it on the AC power side. This might work:

http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html

Disclaimer: I've never needed to try these myself, I've only read about them. But the theory seems solid.

My sincere thanks to all for your clear and perceptive replies. I'm going to go ahead and upgrade. If I run into Melodyne issues, perhaps I'll look to increase ram as a short-term fix.

rrichard63, thanks for considering my hum problem.

The answer to 2b is that they are all on the same breaker, though with a couple of power bars.

I have considered 2c, though I was led to believe that you could test to see if that works by briefly plugging everything into an ungrounded outlet to see if the hum disappears, which it doesn't. Somehow, the firewire cable connection causes the PA speaker to pick up noise from the computer.

That leaves me with 2a. I'm not sure I understand about getting the signal into Firebox. I can plug a mic or guitar into Firebox, but if I disconnect the firewire cable from the computer, then Firebox can't really do what I need it to do. My only purpose for it is as a conduit from my instruments to my software.

Again, my thanks!

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

We ended up using an ebtech Hum-x here in the office for a hum issue we couldn't figure out, and it did the job nicely, but of course whether it works would depend upon your individual situation.


Greg

[rrichard63]

... That leaves me with 2a. I'm not sure I understand about getting the signal into Firebox. I can plug a mic or guitar into Firebox, but if I disconnect the firewire cable from the computer, then Firebox can't really do what I need it to do. My only purpose for it is as a conduit from my instruments to my software.

My purpose in asking about this was diagnostic. I just want to be certain that there's no hum when only the Firebox and your monitor amp are involved. Test with a mic (or the line out from a battery operated iPad or Walkman or whatever) should answer that question -- an electric guitar would be much less certain, because some guitar pickups and unbalanced cables are notorious sources of noise in themselves.

I suggested a battery-operated source for testing in order to rule out creating a different ground loop. I'm trying to make sure there's no ground loop between the Firebox and monitor amp or powered speakers.

Defeating the ground wire in a three-wire power cord diagnoses some problems, but not all. Ground loops can also occur in two-wire AC circuits.

I see that Greg found the Ebtech Hum X useful in at least one situation. You and I both might decide that it's worn having one in our toolboxes, even if it doesn't solve this specific problem.

I don't know enough about Firewire to know whether the suggestion about 4-conductor and 6-conductor Firewire cables is likely to help.

[dpaterson]

Hmmmnnn...

With regard to this hum:

I too have a similar issue but it's with the external monitor connected to my notebook i.e. the moment I output any screen that's bright e.g. a screen with a white background I can actually hear a hum on my PA system as well. It's nothing major but it's there. I spent days looking for a solution myself (and tried removing the ground etc. etc. etc.) but have not been able to sort it out. It does appear to be a widespread problem though i.e. it seems to affect people not only trying to do what we're doing but guys with home theatre systems and the like as well. The only solution that I am led to believe that has indeed solved the problem is to use a thing called an isolation transformer which, from what I gather, goes between your power outlet and the rest of your gear. Not tried it myself yet and not sure if the suggestions made here are for the same type of thing (although from just looking the isolation transformers which I saw being recommended were like big boxes, similar to a UPS, not a simple little adapter that plugs into the wall) (although, who knows, maybe it's the same thing).

Regards,

Dale.

[Mark B]

... That leaves me with 2a. I'm not sure I understand about getting the signal into Firebox. I can plug a mic or guitar into Firebox, but if I disconnect the firewire cable from the computer, then Firebox can't really do what I need it to do. My only purpose for it is as a conduit from my instruments to my software.

My purpose in asking about this was diagnostic. I just want to be certain that there's no hum when only the Firebox and your monitor amp are involved. Test with a mic (or the line out from a battery operated iPad or Walkman or whatever) should answer that question -- an electric guitar would be much less certain, because some guitar pickups and unbalanced cables are notorious sources of noise in themselves.

I suggested a battery-operated source for testing in order to rule out creating a different ground loop. I'm trying to make sure there's no ground loop between the Firebox and monitor amp or powered speakers.

Defeating the ground wire in a three-wire power cord diagnoses some problems, but not all. Ground loops can also occur in two-wire AC circuits.

I see that Greg found the Ebtech Hum X useful in at least one situation. You and I both might decide that it's worn having one in our toolboxes, even if it doesn't solve this specific problem.

I don't know enough about Firewire to know whether the suggestion about 4-conductor and 6-conductor Firewire cables is likely to help.

Thanks again Richard.

OK. I understand. I just tested as you suggest. I didn't even realize this, but when the Firebox is not working in concert with a computer, it independently acts as a pre-amp (you have to plug it in with an AC adapter). Plugging a mic into the Firebox and the Firebox into the powered speaker...no hum. And that's with the firewire cable still attached to the computer, just no computer on. (Actually, come to think of it, a 'whine' better describes the sound.) Turn on the computer, the Firebox goes back to acting as a computer i/o box...whine galore. Sigh.

[rrichard63]

Dale's response indirectly brings to mind another thing you can try: transformer-isolate the audio connection between your Firebox and your monitors. This attacks the problem from the opposite side of the ground loop (audio versus AC).

Exactly what you need depends on whether the connection is balanced or unbalanced, and on the trade off between money and sound quality. Products from Jensen are uniformly high quality and uniformly expensive (but try eBay). Ebtech and Rane audio transformers are serviceable.

[Mark B]

Dale's response indirectly brings to mind another thing you can try: transformer-isolate the audio connection between your Firebox and your monitors. This attacks the problem from the opposite side of the ground loop (audio versus AC).

Exactly what you need depends on whether the connection is balanced or unbalanced, and on the trade off between money and sound quality. Products from Jensen are uniformly high quality and uniformly expensive (but try eBay). Ebtech and Rane audio transformers are serviceable.

Another really good idea, Richard. I'm going to wait and see if the firewire ungrounding works first. I wish I knew which of the two Ebtech-type solutions would work BEFORE I bought them!

By the way, I did go ahead and upgrade to Mixcraft 8 and have been giving it a spin. I like what I see...