Decent PC | Should I get a Soundcard?

[david.stachon]

Hi Everyone,

I have decent PC, and decent USB mic.

(i7 6800k, 16 GB RAM, Titan XP GPU)

and (Yeti Pro USB Mic)

I think generally I've used all the software optimization tips that people have written about to reduce mic distortion and latency, but...

...I'd love, if possible to be able to monitor while recording vocals. (hear vocals with effects in headphones while recording)

NOTE: I just use the audio out for headphones. (not a USB headset)

What's my best option? A sound card? ...or, is what I'm trying to do not feasible with my setup?

Thanks for any advice.

david.

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

An audio interface that has its own ASIO driver would be your best bet. Something like a 2nd gen. Focusrite 2i2 or 2i4 (don't get a 1st gen model).

Greg

[Mark Bliss]

You may find the best results with that combined with a conventional mic.
I have seen mixed results with USB mics. Some seem to work out better than others.

For example- I have one I use occasionally for mobile purposes. It basically works as an audio interface and offers direct monitoring off of it. It works OK for some things but not in conjunction with another interface. It only is usable as a stand alone solution.

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

That's right, you'd also want a microphone that plugged into the audio interface, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to take full advantage of ASIO mode.

Greg

[comedians]

Hi David
Don't know which Yetti model you have but they do have tri capsule arrays which makes them extremely versatile in differing situations.

It sounds like you haven't a model that includes headphone out and/or one which can used on USB or XLR
I have used a $130 Editors Keys USB mic for many vocal recordings, and still revert to it at times, despite having some supposed higher quality mics.

But, like all USB mics, without a built headphone amp my EKeys has the same problem with monitoring, to get round it I use a Shure XLR-USB with a cheap mic next to the Editor Keys but that costs as much as a dedicated audio interface such as a 2i2 or UR22 and as Greg says you will also need a new microphone to go with it; however, if you can afford, it will give you a much more usable interface, better drivers and that important low latency monitoring.

[Torton5]

If I were buying an audio interface for the first time today, I would go for something that is 12volts and has a DSP chip. USB interfaces and USB microphones are portable solutions and if you don't need portable, there is no reason today to put up with their idiosynchrasies, which can be annoying:

5 volts
No DSP chip mixing or FX (horrible "direct monitoring" knob/switch)
Low power to headphones
Low power to monitors
Dodgy phantom power
Dodgy audio quality

For example, why would you buy a UR22 which suffers from all these and is an older design, (same for all other USB bus powered units) when for a little more money you can buy the UR44 which has:

12 volts
Full dsp mixing and effects (you can have real time reverb, eq and compression on headphones/monitors or print to Mixcraft, regardless of Mixcraft latency settings)
Louder headphones
At least 2 times louder monitors
better phantom power
Better audio quality

Even the UR242mkii has some of the above for the same cost as the UR22.

An interface with either a firewire, PCI, wall wart or other 12volt plus power source and an onboard DSP mixing and effects chip, you can't go wrong. Then get a condenser mic for vocals off ebay and sell your yeti to a podcaster. Then you can forget about latency altogether and run Mixcraft at 2048 ASIO buffer. You only need to change it to 64 if you are using virtual instruments.

Even with your powerful computer, if you get a USB powered interface, you will struggle with juggling the "direct monitoring" and putting reverb on it from a track on Mixcraft. And if you load it up with stuff you could experience latency when it comes to vocals.

[Mark Bliss]

I'd agree with Torton on some points, disagree on others based on my own user experience. If the budget allows for it, stepping up another level certainly has points in its favor.

But.... using my old discontinued Tascam USB powered interface as an example:
Quality of monitored sound is noticably better than even an HD on board sound card. Much cleaner and more defined.
Headphone volume is plenty adequite. Loud enough to cause hearing damage. Absolutely no problems there.
Studio monitors are active (self contained amplifiers), and capable of being far louder than necessary.

Monitoring with effects applied has its limitations. ASIO gets pretty low latency but yes, there are limitations that would make DSP a nice upgrade. FWIW, as far as the reverb point- I dont feel the need to monitor with reverb, adding it in mixing has never really bothered me or felt like a detriment. Some may feel the need, and being a heavy resource user- this would be a good example of a limitation. Guitar amp sims are a good example though. Really need to monitor them while recording and in some cases, "low latency" may not be low enough. Vocal overdubbing though? Not such a problem IMO. Your experience may vary.

The suggested Steinberg UR22 might be a good affordable unit for getting into DSP, but demoing one I found the included DSP suite limiting. The effects are I believe the same as was built into in some Yamaha mixing boards. Very little flexibility and so-so quality for example, as compared with some higher end packages with DSP effects.
It would be nice to be able to pick and choose my own, not be restriced to that suite. It certainly doesnt address the above mentioned guitar amp sim monitoring example.


So.... to REALLY address the limitations, we are talking something like Fireware, UAD or equivelent and a pretty big price leap up from the typical USB home studio interface. Admittedly, there may be some gear that fits in between... but I havent tried any of those. Using an Apollo quad in a freinds studio makes me a little giddy, however its currently a little out of my "just for fun and mental stimulation" home studio budget. (roughly three times the cost plus pricey plug ins)
One day soon though....... (And FWIW, I keep watching for more new tech. USB-C promises thunderbolt equivalent or better bus speeds and supports bus power more than adequite for the desired application. still waiting and watching.)

Lastly- It is my understanding some USB interfaces dont supply adequite power for some phantom powered mic's, while some others seem to be acceptable. I have no experience with this. The condenser mic I have used up to now has its own 110v power supply and therefore this isnt an issue I have experienced.

[Rolling Estonian]

Hey David, welcome to the forum!

Don't let these guys get you all confused with their ramblings!

I'll just throw in my $.02 An interface is the way to go if you're doing more than just very basic stuff. If you're a musician who wants to put down something basic, a usb mic could be fine. If you're looking for better results and envision learning more about recording, an interface is pretty much a must.

As mentioned, you can get a pretty basic one for not so much but if you'll need more inputs and outs, you can get some fine units for affordable prices or some more pro models for a lot. Shopping's half the fun for me!

I guess you've noticed that folks here are pretty helpful and the moderators and MC employees are around ready to help, sometimes great discussions come from very basic questions, sometimes......
M

[Torton5]

Mark, it is the UR242 that has the DSP suite and wall wart, the UR22 has bus power and no DSP. Just wanted to clarify for those who might want to test them out. The way these units handle guitar amp simulation is to provide the guitar amps on the chip that you can run in your headphones without latency. They are not the greatest but the idea is that you then swap them out with the amp sim afterwards.

I tried this but in the end but because I only want a Fender amp sound, I ditched all amp sims and other pedals and bought a Joyo pedal "American Sound". That's what I use now, of course with no latency, I just put a little reverb on it from the UR44. Play record...done! No fiddling with amp sims. The quality of the sound is also much better than amp sims.

David, it's hard to know what music you are wanting to do, EDM or something else, however, you said:

"...I'd love, if possible to be able to monitor while recording vocals. (hear vocals with effects in headphones while recording)"

There are ways of doing this. To get the job done without any doubt or further work needed at a high quality and easy for you, you will need:

1. Audio interface with onboard DSP chip including reverb
2. Condenser vocal microphone and pop shield with acoustically desirable space.

That's it really. You plug into the audio interface XLR input, call up the on board DSP mixer, play back the audio from Mixcraft, and juggle the fader for your vocals with the fader coming back from your DAW to get the balance right in your headphones, you can also use any high pass filters or eq/compression on your vocal channel strip if you want. This is a great way to set up the perfect sound in your headphones, you can just have it in your headphones or you can print with it to Mixcraft.

If you want reverb, you just turn up the send on your vocal fader and you get a nice rich high quality reverb. I don't agree that the reverbs on the 242 and 44 units are poor quality, I've never heard that before, it's the Yamaha REv X reverb, very well respected. Reverb units on other manufacturers units are also really good, providing your dealing with the 12volt powered units. The reverb is generally designed only to be heard through your headphones for monitoring, you can't record with it.

When your happy, you record. Done!

You don't have to worry about latency or crackling on popping at all. It won't matter what buffer size is set in Mixcraft. Best to set it to maximum (2048), this gives your CPU even more room to breathe if your running lots of tracks/instruments etc.

Budget: UR242mkii (or secondhand unit off ebay)
Rich: Any unit from any manufacturer that has a DSP chip and reverb (there are other things like on board compression, eq, phase buttons and high/low pass filters that can be very useful, depending on manufacturer)

There is another way using the suggested USB powered interfaces:

Your still going to have to buy a microphone and an audio interface. Now you are going to have to plug your mic in and use the direct out knob/switch on the audio interface and juggle that with headphone volume to get a balance in your headphones. You wont have to worry about latency but it will be a dry and uninspiring unshapable sound coming back through your headphones.

If you want reverb, you are going to have to set up an FX track in Mixcraft with a reverb on it, mute your main vocal track and unmute the fx track with the reverb on and adjust it to suit your tastes in your headphones. You will have to reduce your buffer size so the reverb isn't too delayed but with your fast computer, you probably wont have to worry about latency on the reverb, you will have to juggle the buffers on Mixcraft to get it right.

Alternatively, you can just ignore your audio interfaces direct monitoring and monitor through Mixcraft which will require you to engage the monitoring on your vocal track and add whatever effects to your track and adjust to suit. Here, you are going to have to juggle the buffers on Mixcraft to set your your latency as low as possible or your voice will be delayed in the headphones. Even with your fast computer, you may or may not experience delay or crackling/pops, depending on what how many other tracks/instruments running in your project.

Budget/rich: Any USB powered interface

The first way just gets the job done period, no messing about. The second way involves a lot of probabilities and mights and juggling etc. Maybe that will not be an issue or not for you with your fast computer.

Bottom line is in todays world, why would you force yourself into a situation where you have to do it the second way, when for exactly the same money (even less than some), you can do it the first way.

[Mark Bliss]

I may have confused the model. Been a while.

As I recall, the reverb may have been OK. Much of the rest, meh. I was excited to find an affordable interface with the described features, but in trying it out, decided it wasn't what I wanted and sent it back. Not a knock on their stuff either, actually like them, I just decided to wait to get what I really want sometime later, as the old USB unit I was already using and familiar with works adequately enough for my needs to stick with that until then.

Point is, there's many things to consider and nothing is perfect for all the varying needs of all potential users.

[david.stachon]

Thanks so much for the detailed replies guys. That helped so much.

I ended up getting the Scarlett Solo audio interface as this seemed like that path of least resistance and it works like a charm!

problem solved.

[Mark Bliss]

Cool! Glad to hear the good news.
Let us know how it goes!