Why Only 16-Bit From ASIO Interface

[Thomas]

I have noticed that when I use my only USB interface, the Mackie profx8 v1 mixing board, I only get 16 bit output. There is no option to change it. There is not even an indication of the bit depth until I open the ASIO option window, where it says 16 bit, again no other option. Now, when I use Core Audio through USB, I only see 16 bit, but when I set output through the PC sound card, I have 24 bit as an option. Interestingly, in Wave audio, I can select 24 bit even with USB output. In this mode the lowest workable latency I can get is 42.7ms, with 3 buffers, buffer size 4096, sample rate 48k. What's strange is that the latency goes up when I turn quality setting down and vice-versa. Seems counter-intuitive. Something there I don't see quite yet.

Now, I keep hearing ASIO and then WaveRT (although some of the Mixcraft literature states WaveRT first)is the way to go, but I'm inclined to think my interface is not supporting 24 bit and I figure 24 bit will provide extra headroom when recording, so why start out with a 16 bit handicap? Can anyone clarify what's going on here? I'd like to have 24 bit available, but not sure about the efficacy of the Wave drivers. Unfortunately, Mackie shut down their forums a few years back, so no help there. I like the mixer and don't want to change, but if it is the bottleneck, I probably will put it on the to do list for shopping.

[JonInc]

According to the Profx8 v1 manual, the onboard USB converter is limited to 16 bit, 44.1, 48 khz recording.
These types of USB mixers are not really designed for multitracking, but for summing audio in and out of your computer.

One solution for recording at 24 bit is to try using your onboard sound card with the free asio4all driver (Download from asio4all.org).

If that works well for you, then you can still use your mixer as a submixer to feed audio to and from the sound card via the audio jacks (not USB).

[Thomas]

According to the Profx8 v1 manual, the onboard USB converter is limited to 16 bit, 44.1, 48 khz recording.
These types of USB mixers are not really designed for multitracking, but for summing audio in and out of your computer.

Hi Jon, that's what I suspected

One solution for recording at 24 bit is to try using your onboard sound card with the free asio4all driver (Download from asio4all.org).

This is the driver I am already using. The Mackie mixers come with the Tracktion DAW, and they recommend ASIO4ALL. Unfortunately, when I go into ASIO driver settings, while all the outputs support 24 bit, all the inputs only show 16 bits. So how would I attach my mics (which use XLR cables) XLR to 3.5mm adapter? or XLR mic into mixer, then mixer out to sound card input?

ASIO.PNG (122.19 KiB) Viewed 8138 times

If that works well for you, then you can still use your mixer as a submixer to feed audio to and from the sound card via the audio jacks (not USB).

As I've only been using USB, I'd need to find another way to connect to the soundcard(Realtek ALC888). XLR, 1/4" or RCA? Would the submix be limited to 16 bit or is it only limited to 16 bit through USB?

[Thomas]

ASIO2.PNG (139.77 KiB) Viewed 8136 times

[JonInc]

.... So how would I attach my mics (which use XLR cables) XLR to 3.5mm adapter? or XLR mic into mixer, then mixer out to sound card input?

Basically you'd want to avoid using the USB converter on the mixer. By staying with the mixer's analog audio ins/outs, you are preserving the 24-bit depth all the way through (This assumes the sound card is actually 24 bit).

For example, INPUT: A mic connected to the mixer XLR. OUTPUT: Cable connected either to the mixer FX Send or the Main Out, with the other end going to the Line Input of your sound card.

You could spend $20-30 just for the necessary hookup cables.... Or, consider spending $100 for an audio interface with native ASIO drivers and designed for 24-bit multi-tracking; Steinberg UR12 and Focusrite Scarlett Solo are a couple of solid contenders.

[Thomas]

Basically you'd want to avoid using the USB converter on the mixer. By staying with the mixer's analog audio ins/outs, you are preserving the 24-bit depth all the way through (This assumes the sound card is actually 24 bit).

I've been racking my brain trying to get my ALC888 sound chip to show 24 bits recording with the ASIO drivers with no success. The literature for the chip seems to indicate 24 bit recording and playback up to 192k. I read lots of posts with people having similar problems going back years. Now, before I could only get 24 bit support with Wave, but just a few minutes ago, I loaded WaveRT and it looks like I have 24 bit support up to 192k. Enabling exclusive mode results in 3ms latency! So I may be using WaveRT mode.

For example, INPUT: A mic connected to the mixer XLR. OUTPUT: Cable connected either to the mixer FX Send or the Main Out, with the other end going to the Line Input of your sound card.

I see a 6 Ft 12 Gauge 3.5mm Male To Dual XLR Female Cable on Amazon for under $10. Will consider options further.

[Thomas]

I opened the PC case and pulled the sound chip model # off of the actual chip. ALC888S. Plus "A6G69Q1 GA40D2According to this site: https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/audio-c ... n-table/2/
the 888S is the least of the 888 family (it only supports 20 bit recording; unless... it's an 888S-VC or 888S-VD. I have no idea which of the 3 I have. I think I read somewhere VC & VD is version C and D. I don't see 20 bits as an option anywhere in windows or Mixcraft. Here is the hardware ID for device manager in case anyone knows how to interpret all it's secrets: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_103C2AB1&REV_1003
I noticed the REV_1003 and wonder if that matches up with one of the letter versions?

Interestingly, I opened Mixcraft today to see Core Audio options up to 32 bit, but no 20 bit.

Core Audio options.PNG (252.26 KiB) Viewed 8002 times

[Thomas]

Ok, so after poring over the Realtek literature and comparing the writing on the chip, it would seem I have the Realtek ALC888S-VD2-GR. Version D, which is supposed to support 24 bit recording and playback.https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/audio-c ... n-table/2/ Unfortunately, I am experiencing a problem with Windows native apps. I had changed the permissions to the Windowsapps folder so I could apply a skin to an app and apparently broke part of Windows functionality. I virtually never use the app store and in hindsight, Microsoft probably has security features to prevent someone from tampering with that folder to prevent fraud. (ie- trying to use paid apps for free) I spent the better part of 2 days with 5 different Microsoft techs up to level 2 working remotely on my PC, reinstalled Windows twice (without wiping existing programs) to no avail. They suggested I drive 1 1/2 hours south to the nearest MS company store to do a complete reinstall. Thanks for the offer MS, but I can do that at home if I'm going to lose all my programs and customization anyway. To their credit though, there was no charge for the support.

So now I can plug a mic into the Realtek mic input but cannot arm a microphone with either WaveRT or Wave audio codecs. I just get an error message. I can arm a mic through ASIO, but ASIO will not let me select bit rate and only shows 16 bit for the mic even though the ALC888S version D support 24 bit input. Anybody have any insights?

Arming channel.PNG (225.65 KiB) Viewed 7919 times

Arming error.PNG (26.01 KiB) Viewed 7919 times

Only 16 bits no options.PNG (114 KiB) Viewed 7919 times

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

Go into your Windows Privacy settings and check to make sure that apps have permission to use the microphone.



Back to the original subject, have you tried downloading and installing the Realtek audio drivers directly from Realtek?

Greg

[Thomas]

Thanks Greg. I let that one slip through. It was privacy settings as you suggested. I normally turn everything off to give gates and co. less things to spy on. What I don't understand is why sound settings only gives me 16 bit options as seen below.

Limited Choice 16 bit.PNG (113.08 KiB) Viewed 7896 times

And when I go into the sound setting inside Mixcraft, it shows input and output devices, but only one CoreAudio drop down selector for resolution, sample rate and mono/stereo option. Dumb question, but I guess input and output need to match right?

CoreAudio Options.PNG (239 KiB) Viewed 7896 times

Back to the original subject, have you tried downloading and installing the Realtek audio drivers directly from Realtek?

Greg

Greg, I've downloaded them from Realtek before. They have installers that want you to reboot and finish upon rebooting. The problem with that is it never resumed after reboot so I had to resort to manual installation. The manual install seemed to go well, except that I lost my Realtek sound manager, which used to load automatically into the system tray. Now I need to start it manually. Also I'd get the "clear as mud" message, "device **** requires further installation in the events properties.

Realtek driver.PNG (85.29 KiB) Viewed 7896 times

Realtek driver installed..PNG (106.34 KiB) Viewed 7896 times

Requires further installation.PNG (91.73 KiB) Viewed 7896 times

Now the strange thing is although it looks like Realtek is the driver provider with a very recent date of 5/15/18, for some reason I thought it was Microsoft updating the drivers. And when I go to the Realtek site, the latest version is R2.82, which is dated 7/26/17. So I don't understand the dates discrepancy. If you have a solid bulletproof way to install these drivers, I'd like to know. It seems to me, that sometimes driver updates in general can be flaky and not always update properly. From the image below, I've determined it's an ALC888S-VD. D is for version D, 2 for step 2, whatever that means. G for green certification. As I said, it should support 24 bit input. Maybe the answer is to reinstall the drivers again?

RealTek Sound Chip.PNG (593.6 KiB) Viewed 7896 times

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

Have you tried installing the latest drivers from your computer or motherboard manufacturer's web page?

Greg

[Thomas]

I have not tried Mo board site but the Hewlett Packard site post I read referred the user to Realtek's site, same one you showed me and same as I've used before.
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-S ... -p/5953114

It seems using the right procedure might make a difference. IE, uninstalling the old drivers completely, and taking measures from Windows reinstalling arbitrary drivers upon reboot. It should be easier than this in 2018, but it seems like if the driver didn't install 100% correctly, issues might occur, even though on the surface, it looks normal and I've been getting sound. I just read you can disable auto driver update in windows. They should imo, make it program specific, so you can choose which drivers will auto update and which won't, like you can in android play store apps. You can disable auto update on a per app basis.

[Thomas]

Hi,

Have you tried installing the latest drivers from your computer or motherboard manufacturer's web page?

Greg

Hi Greg,
I found drivers for my Foxconn motherboard and from Hewlett Packard. HP had one for Windows 7 (original driver) and one for Win 8. The PC came with Win 7 originally but I decided to use the Win 8 drivers from HP from 2012 as they were the latest for my 7 year old rig. That made the most sense to me. Apparently the Realtek drivers from the Realtek site are too generic and don't work as well as the OEM drivers. What threw me off during installation was that I was checking device manager for the Realtek device to reappear but it manifested itself as "High definition audio device" and had Microsoft drivers dated 7/6/18. In sound properties, it mentions "controller information", then the device, so Microsoft seems to have their driver joined somehow with the HP audio drivers. I'm not sure why it shows Microsoft and not Realtek but the important part is that it will now let me record in 24 bits even in ASIO mode! Thanks for the advice.

24 bit recording yeah baby!.PNG (210.01 KiB) Viewed 7864 times

[Thomas]

Hi,

Have you tried installing the latest drivers from your computer or motherboard manufacturer's web page?

Greg

Hi Greg,
We still have one more wrinkle to iron out. For some counter-intuitive reason, when I select WaveRt mode and check the exclusive mode box, the settings revert to 16 bit only. Why is it doing this and can we change it?

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

That's what your soundcard provides to the Windows audio API: 16-bit.

How is ASIO working for you? If you select ASIO, then click Open Mixer, what are your options there?

Greg