SubMix & Mix to new track

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Kuba W
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SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Kuba W » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:49 pm

Hello!

Is there any easy way to presume what's gonna happen to my submixed tracks when I want to mix them down to new audio?

Some time ago I've asked in MC suggestions for possibility of mixing down the whole submixes, because this is my biggest logistic problem over the time of about 60 projects.

The use of submixes is very nice when I'm building the beats, but then when it comes to vocal recordings and I want to make projects a bit lighter, the confusion begins.

I don't get why the track set to X% side is becoming also set to the side, even tho the new wave is alreday to the side. But this is at least visible. But what is happening with volumes? With effects? It grabs the volume of submix but stays in submix etc. I know I could just listen, but dont want to go thru mixing again at this stage and I would like to be shure of what I'm gonna receive...

I tried taking tracks out, mixing down to new and putting back again. Usually it's close, but not always. I have soloed the submix, turned off all master fx, exported to wave, put back in project and it was not sounding same. And I'm only talking about single subs - I don't even want to go deeper :)

So either I don't get it right or it's not completely logical, and if anyone can show me the right way, me and my projects will be very happy.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Acoustica Greg » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:50 pm

Hi,

When you mix down to wav, make sure you're using the same sample rate that you have selected in Mixcraft's sound device preferences.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

Kuba W
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Kuba W » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:32 pm

The universal answer :)

No. This is not the sample rate issue at all. 1st - I always use the same, 2nd - I don't have overall mixdown problems. What I'm asking for, is that somebody helps me rebuilding the chain with audio track in place of midi track. It's no problem with normal tracks, but it is with submixed tracks.

I appreciate that You leave no topic unanswered, and understand how many technical questions you deal with, so lets leave this one to somebody who can help me going through this process properly.

Greetings

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Acoustica Greg » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:42 pm

Hi,

The reason I often make that suggestion is that is most often the actual solution to the problem. :wink:

So, you're saying that you've tried mixing down to a wav file with the sample rate you're using in sound device preferences, and the submix still sounds different from the way it sounds before you mix down, correct? If you load it into Mixcraft and play it, does it still sound wrong?

As far as we know, there is no inherent problem with mixing down submixes. If you've discovered something we don't know about, we'd need to know more details about the problem in order to offer a solution. It may be a particular third-party plugin or some other unknown factor that's causing the problem.

Try mixing down to a wav file, then quit Mixcraft and send us your mixcraft-log.txt file.

To find the mixcraft-log file, highlight the following line and press Ctrl+C to copy it:

Code: Select all

%appdata%\Acoustica\Mixcraft\
Press the Windows Key+R to pop up the Run box in Windows. Click in the Run box and press Ctrl+V to paste in the line from above. Finally, click OK to go to the location of the mixcraft-log.txt file. Submit an Acoustica Support Request and attach the log file along with a brief description of the problem.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

Kuba W
Posts: 106
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Kuba W » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:54 am

Hi!

I would say this time it is my misunderstanding of the things nature rather than some fault in Mixcraft. I'll show you the picture to make it easier:
submixingmini.jpg
submixingmini.jpg (87.99 KiB) Viewed 2707 times
I want tracks 1.1 1.2 1.3 mixed down to new audio tracks. What do you do, step by step?

F.e. if you mix down track 1.2 which is set to the left, the new wave will be louder on left channel, but the new track is still the same percent to the left. So if you dont make any changes it is 'double left' comparing to original midi track. Same with volumes. I can deal with it on a normal track, but when it comes to submixed ones, I'm often confused. Should the new track stay in submix or out? Should I mix down as it is, or first disable submix fx, zero the volume and pan? Mix it down outside submix? Is it catching the submix volume and fx too, or just the submixed ones? Because everytime I try I get to different conclusions...

To avoid all that i just tried to mix down the submix like a whole project, so I solo the submix, disable master fx (g-gain, broadcast multiband comp, ozone), mix down to wave, put the new wave in new track (it's just below the 1.3 track, but I had to cut the pic to make it all visible), mute submix, turn master fx on and THEN it doesn't sound equal. So it's not the type of mixdown problem like I had the other time with one project, but I'm just not able to 100% recreate the project with waves in place of midi when it comes to submixes. And I need the way of doin it with my speakers off and headphones down, no listening, just 100% confidence of what Im gonna get after mixing down to new...

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:48 am

Hi,

If the track is in a submix, it will be routed through the parent track. So, you'd probably want to move the tracks out of the submix and then mix them down.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Mark Bliss » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:34 am

Kuba W wrote: I want tracks 1.1 1.2 1.3 mixed down to new audio tracks. What do you do, step by step?
Methods vary, but as a general suggestion- If I want to change a virtual instrument track to an audio track I would do it earlier in the process more often than not.
Step one, save your current project. Any changes can be renamed by using "save as" preserving your original work in case something goes awry.
Kuba W wrote: if you mix down track 1.2 which is set to the left, the new wave will be louder on left channel, but the new track is still the same percent to the left. So if you dont make any changes it is 'double left' comparing to original midi track. Same with volumes.
Yes, you are mixing down the output, so any panning etc is "recorded" into the result.
You could either do it that way and on the new track-center the panning, and set the level to unity (0) or you could center the panning and set the level to 0 before mixing down and reset them in the new track (take careful notes). Your choice. Same with effects to a point......
Kuba W wrote:I can deal with it on a normal track, but when it comes to submixed ones, I'm often confused. Should the new track stay in submix or out? Should I mix down as it is, or first disable submix fx, zero the volume and pan? Mix it down outside submix? Is it catching the submix volume and fx too, or just the submixed ones? Because everytime I try I get to different conclusions...
Your method isn't clear but-
Yes, you are recording the submix inserts. Also keep in mind, if you mix down one track, the inserts may react differently to one track than (in this example) all three cumulatively. Insert results may be different when the input to them is different.
Kuba W wrote:To avoid all that i just tried to mix down the submix like a whole project, so I solo the submix, disable master fx (g-gain, broadcast multiband comp, ozone), mix down to wave, put the new wave in new track (it's just below the 1.3 track, but I had to cut the pic to make it all visible), mute submix, turn master fx on and THEN it doesn't sound equal.
In theory this should probably work. There may be something missing in the description, method, something overlooked. Like a send bus output. Dont know.
You may have to experiment to find what works best for you.
Stay in tune, Mark

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

Kuba W
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Kuba W » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:01 am

OK, that's what I do when I really have to get rid of extra power-eating plugins. But I still got some questions about:

1. Is there any reason why the new mixdown track has the same settings as the old midi? If it was -3dB and 15% left, then wave is already -3dB and 15% left. Why the new track is not set to 0dB centered?

2. If I make the mixdown inside submix is it ready to take it out of submix being identical? I mean the submixed is -3dB plus compressor and then parent -2dB and equalizer and I mix down to new track inside submix then new wave is -3 -> compressed -> -2 -> equalized? If it is then why not jump out of submix with 0 settings again like in point 1? Why should it grab the parent track settings? When you mix down to new audio the normal track it doesn't grab the master fx which is parent to this track...

It's all confusing for me, but I will get it after few questions. On the above pic example: if I mix down to new each of these 3 submixed tracks being still inside, can I take them out and get rid of the whole submix? And what with the volumes? The new tracks will be set like the old ones, so do I set them to 0 even tho parent is giving -2,3 on the way..? :roll:

I'm sorry for making it so complicated, but so far I had to find a different ways in different projects and I believe there is one proper way of doin it every time with your ears shut.

Kuba W
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Kuba W » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:03 am

Just posted back to Greg and realised Mark replied too. So if anything is already explained, I'll be reading it now :)

Kuba W
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Kuba W » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:14 pm

Mark Bliss - thanks for your valuable post. Not much new, but gave me confidence that I didn't go crazy...
Mark Bliss wrote:Step one, save your current project. Any changes can be renamed by using "save as" preserving your original work in case something goes awry.
I'm a man of milion saves and backups, and all important changes written down to paper or printscreened 8)
Mark Bliss wrote:You could either do it that way and on the new track-center the panning, and set the level to unity (0) or you could center the panning and set the level to 0 before mixing down and reset them in the new track (take careful notes). Your choice. Same with effects to a point......
Not quite shure about this one, but maybe I'm wrong. I would rather 'zero' that after mixdown, cos if there is some compressor on the nested track it should matter if you do -3dB -> compressor -> new to 0 OR 0 -> compressor -> new to -3dB, unless you make compression changes... But I got the whole picture you meant.
Mark Bliss wrote:Also keep in mind, if you mix down one track, the inserts may react differently to one track than (in this example) all three cumulatively. Insert results may be different when the input to them is different.
And that's a good one. I have no proper knowledge or measures done, but I thought it may be important, and that's why I suggested possibility of mixing down the whole submix.
Mark Bliss wrote:In theory this should probably work. There may be something missing in the description, method, something overlooked. Like a send bus output. Dont know.
I think that goes back to the previous point but in a diffrent composition. Something on the way is turned off, so the sum is different, then the order of things change and result is a bit different too.
Mark Bliss wrote:You may have to experiment to find what works best for you.
I did and I thought that I do something wrong. But looks like I just have to stop happy-using submix tracks until I get the stronger machine. Like I said it's very useful when building a beat, but also hard to get rid of later...

Greetings

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:16 pm

Hi,

Have you tried just freezing the tracks? (Ctrl+F)

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

Kuba W
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Kuba W » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:29 am

Hi Greg.

No, I didn't. Quickly went thru forum and it didn't tell me much about, so I will have to look for my manual book :o But it also mention 'audio', so if you want to tell me what are the differences or advatages over mixing down to new, then go on :)

Greetings

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Acoustica Greg » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:19 am

Hi,

Freezing temporarily converts the track to a wav file, so it's basically just like mixing to a new audio track.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: SubMix & Mix to new track

Post by Mark Bliss » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:09 am

Yes, and since after review, it seems your primary reason was to reduce the resource load, this may be a good solution for you. With the added bonus that if you decide to go back and edit your MIDI etc. it is pretty simple to unfreeze and go back into the track.
But there are other reasons to render tracks to audio, and it never hurts to consider the options. 8)
Stay in tune, Mark

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

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