Studio Monitor Position

[dpaterson]

Hi.

This is (possibly) the dumbest or most arbitrary question I've asked around these parts BUT:

I was busy cleaning and re-arranging some stuff in my studio today and found myself wondering about the correct placement of studio monitors. What actually gave rise to my wondering was the fact that I've been watching a lot of videos ("Mix With The Masters" and so on and so forth) and I noticed that very seldom, if ever, are studio monitors placed upright i.e. with the woofers on the bottom and the tweeters on the top (never on their "feet" as it were). Mostly they're placed on their sides with the tweeters on the inside and the woofers on the outside but I've also seen them placed the total other way around too i.e. with the woofers on the inside and the tweeters on the outside. Given that these are mostly pros. I'm watching and given that they all do it: I'm figuring there must be a good reason???

Regards,

Dale.

[mick]

Hi, try this. https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/ ... -speakers/
The speakers have a focus just like a photographic lens, the best listening position for stereo image is where the speakers (tweeters mostly) converge just in front of the listener. I suspect some experimenting is in force with some of the vids you saw. ?

[Torton5]

They should be used as the manufacturer intended. Unless they say in the manual that the speakers should or can be put on their sides then they should always be used the right way up, you can try out for yourself of course. Pros don't mix with speakers on their sides, nobody does so I don't know what videos you are watching. Pros will put numerous speakers on their sides in their studios when they are using different speakers for different uses.

Take the Yamaha HS5 as an example, you might see this speaker in "pro studios" upright or on it's side, so people go out and buy it because the "pros" are using it. But in the studio, this speaker has only one function, as a pair of vocal scissors. You can't mix with it, you can't adjust compression or add effects with it. It has a horrid nasal sound and no bass but what it does really well is put the vocals out to the front, so if you want to hear the vocals crisp and out front, every breath, for editing, this will do the job very well. But as a bedroom monitor or a full mix monitor, these are about the worst you can get. So just because you see a speaker in a video on it's side or upright in a "pro studio" doesn't mean they are using it in the way that you think.

The first question is what speakers are you using and where are you using them. Generally, for smaller monitors in a bedroom scenario, something like the rokits are the best bet or anything that is front ported, 4-6 inches used upright in the close nearfield position 3 foot triangle, mixing at low volumes. This will get you the best sound to mix the balance of frequencies with minimal color. You will have to reference against other systems like car stereo etc to "learn" your speakers.

If you have a larger room with a little treatment where you can put the speakers away from the walls and position them correctly (as the manufacturer intended) then you can move to 6-10 inch speakers that will not need to be front ported like the HS7/HS8 etc but I would not be using the rokits or anything front ported in this scenario.

It's really the coloring and bass that you get greater control over when you move into a professional studio with professional acoustic treatment. In this scenario, external referencing is not so important once you learn the speakers.

You can try different things of course but I think it is highly unlikely that in a bedroom studio you will like the sound of monitors on their side to be used as your main mix monitors.

[dpaterson]

Hello.

Thanks for the excellent posts and input.

I guess it's not the dumbest question around then!!! LOL!!!

Was just wondering is all.

As for which pros. and which videos: there's loads on YouTube where somebody is being interviewed in a studio and you can see the monitors turned on their sides above the mixing desk. Here's but one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ksVA69HICE (excellent series by the way i.e. there's a thread around here discussing some of this stuff and loads can be learned from these people). Actually and in this particular series: I never realised that sometimes there are more than just two monitors and sometimes they're upright and sometimes they're not. Oh well. I've elected to put mine of their sides with tweeters closest to me. Just need to get out ye olde measuring tape now to make sure I've got a triangle!!! LOL!!! (Truth be told: I've run out of space and have to balance a third monitor on top of one of my studio monitors and cannot do this if it's upright!!! LOL!!!).

Thanks again.

Regards,

Dale.

[mick]

If its bass its not as critical as the stereo monitors.

[TrevsAudio]

Hello.

Here's but one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ksVA69HICE

Those look like the well known Yamaha NS10's - notoriously good for checking midrange and specifically designed to be mounted on their sides.

[dpaterson]

if its bass its not as critical as the stereo monitors.

Hey (mick). What happened to your "hang it from the ceiling" comment??? It was hilarious!!! LOL!!!

I must say though: it's possibly not quite as dumb a question as I thought it was. For one thing I've noticed that the height of these things makes a difference i.e. where they catch your ears (same principle as a guitar cabinet being micd. on the floor or on a stand). You get a totally different sound (or perception thereof maybe) when the monitors are perfectly in line with your ears than you do just a couple of, even one or two, inches up or down. And the angle also affects your perception of stereo seperation (particularly if you're as anal about this as I am i.e. I can hear even the faintest hint of that ugly mono flanging or phasing type of thing when it's present and it will drive me insane one day I'm sure). But given that these are indeed really bottom of the range I don't put much faith in them when it comes to mixing really (I know for a fact they color the sound, particularly bass, somewhat). When I'm really getting down on a project I'll use headphones (with that Sonarworks referencing software) and from there it's to my PA, home theater, and car CD player. If that all sounds good: then I'm a happy camper. ACTUALLY: WAVES (I think it was but could be mistaken) had little course type thing relating to the use (or not) of subwoofers when mixing i.e. should you or should you not. Most everybody I've spoken to has told me it's a "no no" but I can tell you that I've been surprised of late (my PA has two subs. which I run in mono together). I put together something and it all sounded really fantastic UNTIL I put it through my PA. Because of the way I'd mucked about with the kick and bass it was overwhelming on the subs. (and I mean badly too) but it sounded just fine of my monitors, headphones, and even in the car. Notched everything back and it made little to no difference on my monitors, headphones, and in the car but was way different on the PA. Just some little bit of (useless???) info. for you.

(Wasn't it Schumann that went nuts repeating single notes in his head all the time??? That's how I get with this mono thing!!! LOL!!!).

Regards,

Dale.

P.S. Isn't it funny. Just after finishing the above post I decided to watch some more MWTM videos. Check this part out: https://youtu.be/AC7O_QoRZhU?t=1016 (interview with Michael Brauer and at the part where he's asked about, and discusses, his preferred studio monitors etc. etc. etc.).

P.P.S. It just occurred to me what an idiot I am!!! It actually never dawned on me that these guys were not putting their monitors on their sides i.e. they were DESIGNED that way!!! LOL!!! Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees!!!

[mick]

dpaterson wrote: Hey (mick). What happened to your "hang it from the ceiling" comment??? It was hilarious!!! LOL!!!

Err,,,, I thought it may have been taken as a bit sarcastic and not funny! I think I've used all my sarcasm for a life time so I'm trying to be a good boy from now on.

[starise]

Not a silly question at all.

Yeah, not all monitor speakers are intended to be horizontal. I use a pair of JBL LSR 305's in a smaller studio and they are great for the purpose when used vertically in the 3ft triangle. I use ARC 2 which makes a difference. ARC2 adjusts your room to help get a better image of the real sound and not the room sound. Most average sized rooms re enforce low mid freqs. On a graph I can see where the system notched out the 200-300 range. This is more than EQ though because it also changes freq. timing.

I am too cheap to buy myself a nice pair of small monitor stands, so when I final mix I lean down to where the sweet spot really is. It's about 4 inches lower than where my ears are at sitting height.You can tell when you're there because the sound opens up. I plan to get myself a pair of those, just haven't done it yet. Cardboard boxes and books won't work as well because you need to have a stand that decouples the vibrations from the desk. Some DIY'ers have made things out of foam and rubber. TBH I would rather just buy a pair of them and know it's done right.