Midi output from VST only to another track

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lantz
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Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by lantz » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:08 am

Hi,
I'm using a chord generator VST called Chord Prism to output midi data from the track the plugin is on (track 1) to another instrument track and record the output (track 2). If I play a note on my keyboard or an instrument clip on track, Chord Prism spits out a chord, which I then route to track 2 via LoopBe for recording. When I arm track 2 and record, I get the chord midi data from Chord Prism, which is exactly what I want, but unfortunately I also get the single note from the keyboard or instrument clip on track 1, which I don't want.

All I want is Chord Prism's output, so that if I'm playing my keyboard or have notes in the instrument track, I only hear what Chord Prism puts out and not the underlying note played. As a side note, Chord prism will do this if I load a VST instrument directly into it, but my midi output to track 2 is still the Chord plus the note I played. I have scoured the forums for a fix to this problem and haven't found one yet, but I'm hoping someone here can offer a solution.

-Lantz

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Rolling Estonian
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by Rolling Estonian » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:16 am

Both instances are using the same cc command, that's why you're getting that note along with the chord. Not precisely sure how you can tell MC to not use that command for the note and just the chord, pretty sure it can be done just not familiar. Lots of midi masters around so I'm sure one will be chiming in soon enough.

M

pbognar
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by pbognar » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:50 am

I was just about to create a new thread - good thing I saw this.

I just started testing Chordz with Mixcraft. I can hear the results of Chordz playing the instrument I select, HOWEVER, I cannot record the MIDI data generated by Chordz. Only the single triggering MIDI notes are recorded. Strangely, "Mix to New Audio Track" generates the audio results. I need to edit the generated MIDI first.

Am I doing something wrong, or is this a limitation of Mixcraft?

lantz
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by lantz » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:30 pm

pbognar wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:50 am

Only the single triggering MIDI notes are recorded. Strangely, "Mix to New Audio Track" generates the audio results. I need to edit the generated MIDI first.

Am I doing something wrong, or is this a limitation of Mixcraft?
I believe this is a limitation of Mixcraft, but the solution I've seen posted on this forum and that I've had success with is to use a utility like LoopMidi or LoopBe. Once installed It will appear as an external midi device in Mixcraft. I had to do a lot of fiddling to get it to work, but here's what worked for me:
1. Make two virtual instrument tracks. Be sure to change the input on track 1 from 'All' to your midi keyboard or a specific midi channel. It has to be different from the one assigned to LoopBe or you'll get feedback.
2. Put your chord VST on track one, then your midi utility (I'm using LoopBe) after it. Assign it a specific channel (in the attached image I assigned it to 16)
3. On track 2, put your instrument (if desired) and then arm it for recording using LoopBe, on the same midi channel.
4. Hit record, and the chords produced by the chord plugin on track 1 will be recorded as midi data on track 2.

The issue I'm now having is that along with the chord midi data I'm getting the note played on the keyboard. I can of course just remove those notes after recording, but it is an annoyance.
loopBe.PNG
loopBe.PNG (84.54 KiB) Viewed 1366 times

pbognar
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by pbognar » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:14 pm

Thanks for your reply Lantz. I will experiment with your suggestions.

I really enjoy Mixcraft, as it is straightforward and not overwhelming. I had been playing around with Cubase Elements 10.5, and while it's chord stuff is pretty awesome, the workflow is not my bag.

Because Mixcraft doesn't have any chord features, I was planning to augment it with Scaler 2.0 when it comes out later next month. I wonder if the same issues exist with Scaler in Mixcraft. It's a shame it appears that MIDI Fx are not handled properly.

Chord VSTs are all the rage right now, and with all due respect, I believe that given Mixcraft's target audience, a built in MIDI chorder, pads, or even a MIDI chord track would have really hit the spot.

Olivier57
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by Olivier57 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:57 pm

Hi,

Why not use your two VSTs directly on the same track ? Chord Prism --> your VSTi.
I think when you record from the chord generator, you cannot have the MIDI notes for the chord, since these VSTs allow you to play a chord with just one key on the piano.
With Chord Prism you can export with drag and drop.
To do this, insert a blank clip on the track, start MC playback and play your chords, export to MC from Chord Prism with the drag and drop button. Now you have all the notes of the chord played at a single piano key.

lantz
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by lantz » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:08 pm

Thanks for replying, Olivier. Unfortunately if I use Chord Prism and the VST on the same track I still hear the underlying keyboard note, which is not always in the same Chord when using Chord Prism. Chord Prism does allow for VSTs to be hosted within it, so that solves the one note from the keyboard problem. You're right that you can export the the chord from Sound Prism, so that's solved as well. However, this issue comes up with other chord plugins I've used, as well as when trying to record arpeggiator notes in a separate track. In my ideal world I could just route the midi output from the VST to another track or even another VST on the same track without the input from my keyboard or DAW.

Olivier57
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by Olivier57 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:52 am

Hi,
Unfortunately if I use Chord Prism and the VST on the same track I still hear the underlying keyboard note, which is not always in the same Chord when using Chord Prism.
I'm not sure I understand correctly, I don't have this problem.
Chord Prism does allow for VSTs to be hosted within it, so that solves the one note from the keyboard problem.
Maybe this is the best way to use Chord Prism

lantz
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by lantz » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:28 pm

Olivier57 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:52 am
I'm not sure I understand correctly, I don't have this problem.
That's great news, it means there's a solution. In the attached pic, I have Chord Prism and CMI V stacked on track 1, nothing hosted by Chord Prism. If I click Ab major in the on-screen keyboard in Chord Prism I hear the appropriate chord played through CMI V. If I play the A note on my keyboard, I hear the Ab maj chord, but I also hear the underlying A note. CMI V is getting midi data from both Chord Prism and my keyboard and I don't want that! What's am I doing wrong here?
chorprism.PNG
chorprism.PNG (56.31 KiB) Viewed 1292 times

liberaltugboat
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by liberaltugboat » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:35 pm

lantz wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:28 pm
Olivier57 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:52 am
I'm not sure I understand correctly, I don't have this problem.
That's great news, it means there's a solution. In the attached pic, I have Chord Prism and CMI V stacked on track 1, nothing hosted by Chord Prism. If I click Ab major in the on-screen keyboard in Chord Prism I hear the appropriate chord played through CMI V. If I play the A note on my keyboard, I hear the Ab maj chord, but I also hear the underlying A note. CMI V is getting midi data from both Chord Prism and my keyboard and I don't want that! What's am I doing wrong here?

chorprism.PNG
You are not doing anything wrong, it's a long standing issue with how Mixcraft handles midi routing. It's been reported many times. The best workaround is to use a vst mini host like Kushview Element to host the two plugins.

lantz
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by lantz » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:11 am

Thanks for the Kushview suggestion, I'll give it a shot. I know it has been a long-standing issue with Mixcraft, so I'll add my voice to the chorus asking for improved midi routing options. I love Mixcraft, but this has caused my eyes to wander to other DAWs. :)

liberaltugboat
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by liberaltugboat » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:17 am

lantz wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:11 am
Thanks for the Kushview suggestion, I'll give it a shot. I know it has been a long-standing issue with Mixcraft, so I'll add my voice to the chorus asking for improved midi routing options. I love Mixcraft, but this has caused my eyes to wander to other DAWs. :)
Agreed, the midi routing issues is, imo, the number one issue in Mixcraft considering the popularity of midi generating VSTs.

Olivier57
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Location: France

Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by Olivier57 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:50 am

OK I understand, I tried, but why in this case you are not using Chord as a VST host ?

Olivier57
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Location: France

Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by Olivier57 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:45 pm

Hi,
As said liberalugboat, it's an issue with how Mixcraft handles MIDI routing, I just tested with Live and there is no such problem.

Maybe Greg has a solution ?

bigaquarium
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Re: Midi output from VST only to another track

Post by bigaquarium » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:25 am

Good morning!

Here's your solution!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ9Mwktrfj0

:wink:

- Nathan
youtube.com/c/fansofmixcraft
soundcloud.com/fansofmixcraft

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