Tempo find algorithm

[herodotas]

Hello,
I don't know how works Mixcraft's tempo finding algos, but no one of my loops never was loaded with proper BPM. For example, on loading 140 BPM loop, Mixcraft shows 139.7 BPM and this one is the most accurate. Mostly, results are worse. Why? Any ideas?

EDIT: link with project with some 140 loops loaded. https://easyupload.io/8xvwej

[Mark Bliss]

Loops you create, or loops you download?

[RaveyDavey]

Herodatas,

I think Acoustica should look at those - one of them gave me 140 but some of the others were not right.
Maybe you should submit a support request?

I used MixedInkey to check them and they were coming up with 140 as you said.

[herodotas]

Loops you create, or loops you download?

Loops are downloaded, but what's the point?

[herodotas]

Make some simple loops with only kickdrum in Renoise, one with silence in end, other without, but anyway Mixcraft can't calculate proper BPM, algos work BAD!

[herodotas]

Herodatas,

I think Acoustica should look at those - one of them gave me 140 but some of the others were not right.
Maybe you should submit a support request?

I used MixedInkey to check them and they were coming up with 140 as you said.

I did it.

[Mark Bliss]

Loops you create, or loops you download?

Loops are downloaded, but what's the point?

I'm not sure, just trying to compare experiences.
I have seen situations where I downloaded some content that stated a bpm, but wasnt quite accurate. Mix them with other content from other producers with other than stated bpm and... Problems arise.
And honestly, I dont know exactly how this works. I am no loop meister, but:

If I intend to import content of a known bpm and set my project bpm acordingly, but the content isnt as described....
I assume the host is either going to use my settings, and/or data incorporated within the content file. If I set the project to 140 and/or the data says its 140 but the actual content is 139, theres the problem right?
As far as I know, in this situation, there is no automatic analysis to determine bpm. Am I mistaken about this? I honestly dont know. In my little bit of loop experimentation, I guess I never expected it to work that way. I have had occasion to manually fix some results of mismatches. And its tedious.

There is a function for beat detection but it is initiated by the user afaik. I honestly have never used it. My understanding from other conversations about "beat detection" it is "iffy" in part due to reliance on rhythmic/transient content and therefore may not be overly accurate in many cases. And from what I gather there are some daw's that may have better features for this than others. And again, limited knowledge, this isnt "my thing"
But from your description, I dont think that feature is what you are describing?

[herodotas]

We talk about same. It's nevermind how you name it. Just if you have beat detection on, Mixcraft sets song BPM from first loop, and all following loops must be set to song time grid, but this works wrong in Mixcraft and all that must be done manually.

[Mark Bliss]

Just if you have beat detection on, Mixcraft sets song BPM from first loop, and all following loops must be set to song time grid, but this works wrong in Mixcraft and all that must be done manually.

This description differs from the previous. And I am still not sure I understand.
I'll take a look at the project later today, and see if I can get a better understanding.

[Mark Bliss]

OK, to start with- Lets change the project tempo from 120 to 140.
Then double click on each audio clip and change it from "use project tempo" to "time stretch" because the loops don't seem to actually be 140 BPM.

Tempo.png (170.33 KiB) Viewed 2250 times

Tempo2.png (173.15 KiB) Viewed 2250 times

Then since several loops are 2 bars, lets double them so we have all 4 bar loops.

Tempo3.png (89.62 KiB) Viewed 2250 times

Without doing a lot of deep analysis on this, I have to go back to my previous comments. The loops seem to have incorrect tempo data.

GIGO.

[herodotas]

You are wrong Mark Bliss, loops are 140 BPM and tested in others DAWs (Waveform and Cakewalk ), it's Mixcraft doing bad and need to be repaired.

Just wrote by hand "140" BPM, when turning "use project tempo" and you will see that loops are 140 bpm. Mixcraft can't set properly "original clip tempo", that is the reason.

[Mark Bliss]

That's entirely possible. Like I said in my previous reply- I don't know how this works exactly. Greg or someone else will reply when they get to this.

I will say, this morning I imported those files into two other DAW's and they do behave differently than Mixcraft.
But I will add a few caveats:
One, I don't know these other DAWs at all. I feel lost in the mess. Dislike them strongly for assorted reasons.
Two, I cant tell if the clips are working correctly or not in any case, because even when seemingly synched, they don't exactly seem to fit together.....
Which leads me to three: If I did find one that worked better for what I want to do, I'd probably use that. Life is too short to mess with what doesn't work.
And again, I haven't worked with loops much since MX 6 and 7. Its not "my thing"

Greg may agree and file a bug. In the meantime, I think I showed a simple way to make it work.

Have a nice day!