Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

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bbarrett
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Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Sat May 30, 2020 11:20 am

Hi all,

For some virtual instruments, when a note is repeated without any break between the stop of the first and start of the second, the second note plays no sound. This does not happen if the pitch changes, only when the same note is repeated. If the first note is instead ended just before the second begins, then both notes play fine.

Does anyone else experience this problem? If it's expected behavior, then is there a way to make it not happen? Going through and manually adjusting the end time of the first note everywhere it happens does not sound fun to me :x

Thanks!
-Ben B.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by Acoustica Greg » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Hi,

Are you using Mixcraft 9.0 build 460?

Each MIDI note has a "note on" command at the start and a "note off" at the end. If two notes overlap a tiny bit, the note off from the first note can keep the second note from playing.

Quantizing the notes can help, assuming you can find a quantize setting that matches what you're trying to do.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

bbarrett
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:13 pm

I'm using 9.0 with build 447.

I'm familiar with the midi format, and I have quantized both the start and end times of the instrument's track to 1/16th notes. I'm currently experiencing the issue with Spitfire Audio's recently released BBC Orchestra library, specifically with the strings. I have had a similar issue in the past with other sounds, I just can't recall which ones at the moment. I solved the issue then by forcing the note to end a fraction of a second before the next note was supposed to start, but this is really clunky and I've finally had enough of it...So now I'm here!

I'm a programmer myself, so feel free to get technical if necessary :)

Thanks!
-Ben

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:16 pm

Hi,

First thing, update to build 460 and see if the problem disappears. Lots of fixes between 447 and 460.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

bbarrett
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:34 pm

Software updated, note still does not play.

-Ben

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by Acoustica Greg » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:37 pm

Hi,

Please submit an Acoustica Support Request and attach the project file. Specify where the problem notes are.

Does it happen with any virtual instrument?

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

bbarrett
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:16 pm

Will do.

I've noticed one other thing while putting together the project to send over, though, might be helpful. When I try mixing down the midi string part created with the Spitfire plugin, the .wav file has no sound. Additionally, the midi track no longer plays any sound until I reselect the midi instrument, but it still fails to play repeated notes.

I'll include all this in the support ticket as well, however it's super easy to replicate if you pick up the Spitfire library...I'm not sure whether that instrument set will survive the trip across the internet...

And no, it doesn't happen with any virtual instrument, the strings section provided with MC plays fine. It's currently a problem with instrument I use that's part of Spitfire Audio's recent free 'Discover" library, even percussion sounds.

-Ben

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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by cactus-head » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:05 pm

Hi bbarrett,

did you analyse the midi events carefully to be sure that a midi off message is being sent? Depending on how you are entering your midi information all of the control messages may not be sent.

Another thing to check for is if the midi controller is sending the same exact midi note on multiple midi channels. For example, on the PX-5s piano/synth when I use it as a controller to enter midi notes, I have to be aware of what patch it's set to. Some patches can have multiple layers going to different midi channels and in effect sending the exact same note to a daw or instrument that is receiving omni or all channels. The result can be a weird phasing or an instrument not playing at all under certain circumstances because it can't resolve the simultaneous playing of the same note.

bbarrett
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:59 am

I'm not sure how to analyze the midi events inside MC to determine if the off message is sent, so a quick rundown on this might be helpful. But let me just describe a really simple workflow that creates the problem, and perhaps rules out some of the other controller/channel issues you suggest.

1. Create a blank project with one VI track
2. Create a clip
3. Change the instrument to one of the BBC Orchestra instruments
4. Place two notes back to back, ensuring that they're quantized appropriately so that one note ends at the same time as the next begins.

With this process, the first note in the clip will play, and it will end when it's supposed to end. However, the second note, as long as it's the same as the first note, will not make any sound.

Let me reiterate, at the moment, I'm ONLY experiencing the problem if I use an instrument that's part of Spitfire Audio's Discover VST plugin. If I come across another instrument which has the same problem and is not part of that plugin, I'll mention it here.

bbarrett
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:08 pm

bump, still having this issue :( I was looking forward to using the BBC Orchestra stuff, but this is super annoying and keeping me from doing so.

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by Acoustica Greg » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:52 am

Hi,

Did you ever send in that support ticket? I don't see anything under the email address your'e using for this forum.

This is a plugin, not a library for Kontakt or whatever? Have you contacted the makers of the plugin to see if they have any suggestions?

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Give it a try here: http://acoustica.com/mixcraft/
Check out our Mixcraft University video tutorials.

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Mark Bliss
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by Mark Bliss » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:35 am

@Greg,
I believe they have their own proprietary "player" and a series of sample/instrument packages that load within, similar to a Kontakt etc. Configuration.

Full disclosure: I signed up for the recent offer of a free library, and discovered some other interesting stuff from them, but I havent had an opportunity to download/install/explore yet.
But it appears you can install a free player and a number of free sample packs.
On the other hand, they also offer some pretty high priced libraries as well.
Stay in tune, Mark

My SOUNDCLOUD Page

bbarrett
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:00 pm

I did send in a support ticket...though I suppose it's possible I didn't use the proper channel for it. (I submitted here: https://acoustica.kayako.com/conversation/new)

I have not contacted Spitfire yet, something tells me they wouldn't release their software without making sure repeated notes could play. What Mark says seems accurate. I don't know the details about what makes a plugin different from a library or a VST, but I know that in their more expensive packages the instruments can do some pretty impressive realistic effects, things that would be quite complicated to do in a midi editor alone.

I'd be surprised if, as a DAW developer, they wouldn't give you access to their free package without the 14 day wait. To be honest, I'm surprised they didn't reach out to you (Acoustica in general) to make sure it worked with your software. I guess I probably just don't know the business well enough.

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jlouvar
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't pla

Post by jlouvar » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:13 pm

@ bbarrett

Please let us know what the makers said after you contact them. Thank you.

PS: I don’t think Acoustica Support received your support ticket... So you should probably send Acoustica Support a new ticket. https://acoustica.kayako.com/conversation/new
- Joe -

MX9PS, 64-bit, build 460. Windows 10, Intel i5, 64-bit, 1.8GHz, 8GB.
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bbarrett
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Re: Repeated MIDI note doesn't play

Post by bbarrett » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:11 pm

Haven't heard back from them, but I did submit a new support request a few weeks back...

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