How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

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KaioBettoni
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:16 pm

How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by KaioBettoni »

Hi guys!

I just watched this video with a very interesting de-essing trick by the "produce like a pro" channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0etNkadq34), but I got stuck when he said something about sending to a "dead output" or something like that... he is using ProTools, is it does MixCraft 8 have this function as well?

Thanks!!
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Mark Bliss
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Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by Mark Bliss »

His "dead output" is a duplicate track that is only used as a side chain input for a compreasor. It has no output to the main bus. (You dont hear it)

In Mixcraft, I think there may be multiple ways of doing this, depending on the combination of MX version and specific plug in used.
(I havent experimented with this yet.)

One method could be to simply turn down the duplicated track all the way and use a third party compressor that allows internal side chain routing.

Mixcraft's "audio control" feature might also be configurable in a similar way as a trigger. (I have no experience using this feature, and also am not sure if it in MX8. It may be MX9 only?)

I have been using the old fashioned, slow and tedious manual clip gain automation method for the heavy lifting, and some modest dynamic eq, having found that to give the best sounding results. But the side chain trigger method is certainly worthy of experimentation, as it would save a lot of time.
*Also thinking one could time shift the trigger track forward slightly a few ms for a "look ahead" effect to further smooth things out with a goal of transparency.
Stay in tune, Mark

My SOUNDCLOUD Page
Drdish007
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Tecumseh, ON, Canada

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by Drdish007 »

Hi,
I had a piece where I had one solo instrument control the levels of other instruments in that section of the piece. This process is called ducking. The sound of the solo instrument turns down the other instruments when it is playing. The solo instrument controller the compressor. I used a compressor plug-in that had a side chain feature. I did this in Mixcraft8 and it worked fine.
For de-essing you could copy the vocal track, like in the video, add an eq plug-in, like in the video. Set the output that is not the master output bus. Then add a compressor plug-in to your vocal track. Set the side chain input to get the signal from the copied vocal track. Adjust the compressor for the desired reduction.
Check the Mix8 manual for details.

Hope this helps you.

- Myran.
Mixcraft9RS(469)64Bit, Win. 10 64Bit, Intel i5 @ 3.20GHz, ssd 250GB(os),1TB hdd(library audio),1TB hdd (recorded audio),Nvidia GeForce1050i video,16GB RAM,Focusrite 18I20 2nd gen usb,Motu 5 ch.midi interface, D5,U220,Keystation88,B4000+,Leslie,Rhodes73mk1
KaioBettoni
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:16 pm

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by KaioBettoni »

Mark Bliss wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:06 am His "dead output" is a duplicate track that is only used as a side chain input for a compreasor. It has no output to the main bus. (You dont hear it)

In Mixcraft, I think there may be multiple ways of doing this, depending on the combination of MX version and specific plug in used.
(I havent experimented with this yet.)

One method could be to simply turn down the duplicated track all the way and use a third party compressor that allows internal side chain routing.

Mixcraft's "audio control" feature might also be configurable in a similar way as a trigger. (I have no experience using this feature, and also am not sure if it in MX8. It may be MX9 only?)

I have been using the old fashioned, slow and tedious manual clip gain automation method for the heavy lifting, and some modest dynamic eq, having found that to give the best sounding results. But the side chain trigger method is certainly worthy of experimentation, as it would save a lot of time.
*Also thinking one could time shift the trigger track forward slightly a few ms for a "look ahead" effect to further smooth things out with a goal of transparency.
WOW!
I'm still a little kid n this side chain thing, I have a few guesses of what it really is, but no ideia of how to actually do it! hahaha
I also use a lot of the clip gain automation, and I'm looking for fast ways to solve the problem.


Drdish007 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:27 am Hi,
I had a piece where I had one solo instrument control the levels of other instruments in that section of the piece. This process is called ducking. The sound of the solo instrument turns down the other instruments when it is playing. The solo instrument controller the compressor. I used a compressor plug-in that had a side chain feature. I did this in Mixcraft8 and it worked fine.
For de-essing you could copy the vocal track, like in the video, add an eq plug-in, like in the video. Set the output that is not the master output bus. Then add a compressor plug-in to your vocal track. Set the side chain input to get the signal from the copied vocal track. Adjust the compressor for the desired reduction.
Check the Mix8 manual for details.

Hope this helps you.

- Myran.
Hi!!

I'm really interested to learn about this ducking process, I hear many people talking about it, but never really understood what it is and how it works... by what you said, this solo instrument you talked about feeds the compressor and triggers it, as there is "more sound coming in", but we don't hear it, only the compressor... is that it?
And in the case of the "de-essing", I'm feeding the compressor more of only the "ssss" frequency I isolated on the copied track, so it triggers when it is "too much"... did I get it right?
Drdish007
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Tecumseh, ON, Canada

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by Drdish007 »

Hi,
The solo instrument can also be heard. What the ducking did was turned down the other instruments in that section of the piece when the solo instrument was playing. This is similar to a narrator speaking in a documentary. When the narrator starts speaking, the background music or sounds, reduce in level so the narrator voice is heard better.
I checked to see what I had done. I had put all the instruments to be reduced in level, in a submix track. I put a plug-in compressor that had sidechain available. The solo instrument was on a normal track.
In the sidecain input I selected the solo track as input, prefader level. I then set up the compressor to reduce the level of the submix track. When there was no solo instrument playing, the submix track was at its normal level.
For de-essing make a copy of the vocal track as the video showed. Then use the EQ'd vocal copy as the source for the side chain signal. Set the output of vocal copy track so it doesn't go to the Master track.
On the original vocal track add a compressor plug-in, with side chain feature, select the copied vocal track as source for the side chain. Adjust compressor to reduce the ' SSSS ' level to you want.

- Myran
Mixcraft9RS(469)64Bit, Win. 10 64Bit, Intel i5 @ 3.20GHz, ssd 250GB(os),1TB hdd(library audio),1TB hdd (recorded audio),Nvidia GeForce1050i video,16GB RAM,Focusrite 18I20 2nd gen usb,Motu 5 ch.midi interface, D5,U220,Keystation88,B4000+,Leslie,Rhodes73mk1
KaioBettoni
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:16 pm

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by KaioBettoni »

Drdish007 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:49 pm Hi,
The solo instrument can also be heard. What the ducking did was turned down the other instruments in that section of the piece when the solo instrument was playing. This is similar to a narrator speaking in a documentary. When the narrator starts speaking, the background music or sounds, reduce in level so the narrator voice is heard better.
I checked to see what I had done. I had put all the instruments to be reduced in level, in a submix track. I put a plug-in compressor that had sidechain available. The solo instrument was on a normal track.
In the sidecain input I selected the solo track as input, prefader level. I then set up the compressor to reduce the level of the submix track. When there was no solo instrument playing, the submix track was at its normal level.
For de-essing make a copy of the vocal track as the video showed. Then use the EQ'd vocal copy as the source for the side chain signal. Set the output of vocal copy track so it doesn't go to the Master track.
On the original vocal track add a compressor plug-in, with side chain feature, select the copied vocal track as source for the side chain. Adjust compressor to reduce the ' SSSS ' level to you want.

- Myran
Got it!! I'm gonna try it later tonight! Thank you very much!!
Drdish007
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Tecumseh, ON, Canada

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by Drdish007 »

You are welcome. Have fun!!!
- Myran
Mixcraft9RS(469)64Bit, Win. 10 64Bit, Intel i5 @ 3.20GHz, ssd 250GB(os),1TB hdd(library audio),1TB hdd (recorded audio),Nvidia GeForce1050i video,16GB RAM,Focusrite 18I20 2nd gen usb,Motu 5 ch.midi interface, D5,U220,Keystation88,B4000+,Leslie,Rhodes73mk1
KaioBettoni
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:16 pm

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by KaioBettoni »

Drdish007 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:03 pm You are welcome. Have fun!!!
- Myran
So, I tried that last night, but I couldn't find a way to send the copied track to another output, maybe MixCraft 8 doesn't have this feature? I imagine you did this using 9, am I right?

Buuuuuuuut.... I've found another way using a "quad compressor" (by T-RackS), I tried to separate only the area where the "ssss" happens on the "compressor's EQ" and compressed it as the "sssss" triggers the compressor by putting the threshold in the right spot (-21.5db), the fastest attack and a release of only 57ms... and reduced the 1db on the gain as well... it's a beauty!!! hahahahaha :lol: :lol:
Drdish007
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Tecumseh, ON, Canada

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by Drdish007 »

Hi,
You can turn the volume down on the copied vocal track, and on the side chain input of the compressor use that track as the source, but use it ' prefader '. This will give you the signal to the side chain input, and with track volume turned down no signal to th master track.
In the mixer view, near the top of the track you can select the track output. It is in the manual. But what I shared above should work.

- Myran
Mixcraft9RS(469)64Bit, Win. 10 64Bit, Intel i5 @ 3.20GHz, ssd 250GB(os),1TB hdd(library audio),1TB hdd (recorded audio),Nvidia GeForce1050i video,16GB RAM,Focusrite 18I20 2nd gen usb,Motu 5 ch.midi interface, D5,U220,Keystation88,B4000+,Leslie,Rhodes73mk1
Drdish007
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Tecumseh, ON, Canada

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by Drdish007 »

Hi,
I did the ducking setup in Mixcraft8.

- Myran
Mixcraft9RS(469)64Bit, Win. 10 64Bit, Intel i5 @ 3.20GHz, ssd 250GB(os),1TB hdd(library audio),1TB hdd (recorded audio),Nvidia GeForce1050i video,16GB RAM,Focusrite 18I20 2nd gen usb,Motu 5 ch.midi interface, D5,U220,Keystation88,B4000+,Leslie,Rhodes73mk1
KaioBettoni
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:16 pm

Re: How can I do this de-essing trick on MC8?

Post by KaioBettoni »

Drdish007 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:46 am Hi,
You can turn the volume down on the copied vocal track, and on the side chain input of the compressor use that track as the source, but use it ' prefader '. This will give you the signal to the side chain input, and with track volume turned down no signal to th master track.
In the mixer view, near the top of the track you can select the track output. It is in the manual. But what I shared above should work.

- Myran

I see! I will try it right now! Thanks!!
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