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Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:32 am
by creativeforge
Hi all,

So I'm completing a project, and now realize after adding a bunch of instruments, that one of the singers voice is a bit too harsh, it sounds like a chainsaw (no offense to my dear friend whom I love very much). I wonder what plugin or technique I could use to fatten it up, make it bigger not louder?

Thanks for any tip!

Andre

p.s. I have found Mixcraft to be a delight to work with, with over 36 tracks, 4 musicians, 8 instruments, 3 vocalists and 1 narrator. Acoustic and virtual instruments, and a synth.

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:53 am
by Frantiac

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:55 pm
by Mark Bliss
It would be exceedingly difficult to make a suggestion based solely on a description.

But some "thickening" techniques include subtle doubling, very short delays, or maybe you need to do some aggressive corrective EQ or maybe the recording just doesnt work with the song.

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:50 pm
by creativeforge
Frantiac wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:53 am This is my go-to for vocals and it's now free: https://www.jhudstudio.com/paid-plugins
Info: https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2019/1 ... -pro-free/
Thank you, I looked it up but it's not really addressing my specific situation. It seems it would enhance the harshness.

Cheers,

Andre

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:51 pm
by creativeforge
Mark Bliss wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:55 pm It would be exceedingly difficult to make a suggestion based solely on a description.

But some "thickening" techniques include subtle doubling, very short delays, or maybe you need to do some aggressive corrective EQ or maybe the recording just doesnt work with the song.
Thank you Mark, the recording may not work with the song, which is my thinking. Looking into various solutions...

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:15 pm
by creativeforge
So here is what I did. I had a friend sing over the passage, and he decided to also do harmony (5th).

And then I put Dubmaster Liquid delay on his two tracks, while keeping the original track. So basically two guys are singing the same thing and one is also adding a harmony.

So the first part of the mp3 is the track as it was, and then the second part is the new track.
andrew-vocals1-2_160.mp3
before-after-comp
(997.61 KiB) Downloaded 171 times
What do you think?

Andre

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:46 am
by Mark Bliss
creativeforge wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:15 pm What do you think?
The layering of the second part is a nice improvement. The first part seemed to have a bit of an upper-mid resonance that "stuck out" or something.

I like what you are doing. Nice sounding track.

One suggestion, though the clip is too short to judge well:
Beware of the cumulative sibilants and plosives when stacking vocals like that.
In your example, i hear what I believe a "B" that jumps out a bit.
Sometimes automating clip gain regions is needed to tame these kind of things.
I often find it works to modestly cut them in the "lead" track and more drastically cut them in duplicate/backing tracks. Often well beyond the point where the backing tracks sound odd in solo.

Carry on. Nice work! 8)

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:59 am
by creativeforge
Thanks Mark! Can you pinpoint the sibilant B? I don't see it. Listening on Sennheiser HD600 headphones.

I have a whole lot of envelopes all over the tracks, trying to maintain a constant dynamic and get rid of any unpleasant sounds. Particularly on vocals to get rid of mouth noises in between words.

Cheers!

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:58 am
by sjoens
The easiest way to remove unwanted noises is cut/delete those parts and bounce/weld the remaining clips back together.

Not sure about MC but other DAWS will retain the original clips after editing in the audio folder in case you ever want to reuse them.

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:54 pm
by creativeforge
sjoens wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:58 am The easiest way to remove unwanted noises is cut/delete those parts and bounce/weld the remaining clips back together.

Not sure about MC but other DAWS will retain the original clips after editing in the audio folder in case you ever want to reuse them.
Thanks for the tip. However the issue was not noise, but related to the voice itself being too strident.

Here is how I treat all my vocal tracks. In fact, any track that has any kind of micro (tic) noise at the beginning on end of the passage. I split audio tracks, and fade in/out as much as needed. It's incredible the amount of noise that can show up otherwise when I solo tracks. Mainly anything recorded as analog audio (synth, microphone), tracks I get from other musicians who recorded their track at home, etc. This way it remains as clean as possible. It's a bit of an OCD thing, I guess... :)
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Cheers,

Andre

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:34 am
by Mark Bliss
Hey Andre,

I listened again on another system and it didn't seem so obvious. But the spot I noticed before was at .37
And it wasn't a sibilant, more of a mildly cumulative plosive I think. Probably nothing to be concerned with here, but something to keep in mind when using that kind of production technique.

Also RE: editing/automating the clip gain-
I see a lot of people make the mistake of making mixing moves there.
It is great for editing out noises, reducing "spikes" or "hot" sections, or boosting a section if it is too low relative to other portions.
But keep in mind that this is where we want to even things out to gain stage going into the inserts, not mix the track level.
To automate the track level when mixing, I would use the volume automation lane, as it is after effects. Just like "riding the fader"

But you probably know all that. :wink:

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:24 am
by creativeforge
Thank you Mark, I will look at that.

And nope, I did not know that for "riding the faders." Very helpful tips. I indeed used automation on tracks as a mixing tool. I'm not sure if I use "inserts" - do you mean Aux sends?

Still learning... :)

André

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:35 pm
by Ianpb
I've found Waves 'CLA Vocals' to be an excellent plugin for quickly and easily fattening and smoothing vocals, as well as giving them a more professional sound. I've tried to duplicate the quality of sound with a string of other plugins but without success, so I use it all the time on vocals.

https://www.waves.com/plugins/cla-vocal ... one-plugin

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:27 am
by creativeforge
Ianpb wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:35 pm I've found Waves 'CLA Vocals' to be an excellent plugin for quickly and easily fattening and smoothing vocals, as well as giving them a more professional sound. I've tried to duplicate the quality of sound with a string of other plugins but without success, so I use it all the time on vocals.

https://www.waves.com/plugins/cla-vocal ... one-plugin
Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into it. :)

Re: Tips to make vocal track fat & punchy?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:02 pm
by Mark Bliss
creativeforge wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:24 am And nope, I did not know that for "riding the faders." Very helpful tips. I indeed used automation on tracks as a mixing tool. I'm not sure if I use "inserts" - do you mean Aux sends?
Hi Andre,
No, "inserts" = effects slots.

I find the best explanation is that clip gain (and the gain knob in the MX9 mixer) are for gain staging, not mixing. This is where you control the signal level going into the effects etc.
Once you have the proper level and it goes through any "effects" or perhaps more appropriately, "emulations"...

Level automation post inserts, such as the automation lanes, are what you want to be using for "riding the fader" as you would in mixing.

You want to "gain stage" for the appropriate input level (which I consider producing) to get the appropriate signal level coming in to the channel strip.
And mix the level coming out (mixing)

Otherwise you are effectively "riding" the level going into the inserts.

It can be confusing. I hope that simplified explanation makes sense.

I edit the tracks with clip gain. Remove noise, clicks, pops, etc. Reduce breaths if desired. Reduce sibilants and plosives as needed. Even out loud sections, perhaps boost quiet sections if needed. Wearing my engineers assistant hat. Once any "repairs" are performed, then I set the proper level going into the inserts, usually using the gain knob. This is all "pre-production" work.
Only later, after that is corrected, I will begin to mix a track with other tracks, using (among other things) the volume automation, which is post inserts.