The WORST feature in Mixcraft is.........

[dpaterson]

You sure are on a roll tonight!!! LOL!!!

Hope we've understood clearly what guitbuddy's issue is though. Otherwise we're going to look like real idiots.

Regards,

Dale.

[guitbuddy]

Hey guys,

sorry Im on a super slow connection. I can barely log in here, much less reply to individual
posts.

I'll try to answer:

1 Windows solutions? NADA! I don't trust any version of windows - to keep ANY setting.

2 Slider? I'm talking about the BIG one on the main window - linked to the main mixer slider.

3. Haven't read that article = can't open it.

thanks

[Acoustica Greg]

Hi,

Here's the first part of the article:

The stereo master fader in your DAW’s virtual mixer is not for controlling the output level of your studio speakers. This is an all-too-common mistake, but an easy one to make. I mean, it does turn down your speaker level, right? Yes, but think about what’s happening to your mix down level, the waveforms that you’re printing to disk. If your master fader is turned way down in order to keep your speakers low, and your neighbors oblivious to your beats, the mix you’re printing to disk is also going to be low in volume. We’re talking itsy-bitsy waveforms here, a potentially bad signal to noise ratio, and just a plain old poorly executed recording, It’s this exact result that most often leads the inexperienced producer to the puzzling question, “Why the heck are my mixes so low in volume?” (And, incidentally, gain normalization is not the remedy here, because in normalizing a very low waveform you’re also turning the recording’s background noise way up.)

Link to the full article: The Master Fader is Not for Monitor Control!

Greg

[Mark Bliss]

OK, well-
Love to help, but all I know for sure is that we are discussing the master fader.
I think.

What I am not certain about is just what the issue is. And I am totally missing the point as to the association with hearing loss.
But anyway, I did gather that the master fader must be being used as a volume control here. And as Greg's excerpt from the previously linked article attempts to explain, the master fader is best (IMO and apparently some people far smarter than I) considered part of "gain staging" into the D/A converter, not a monitoring volume control.

Once converted to analog, the signal is usually/commonly routed to some form of amplifier. Headphone, active monitors, something. And there should be some form of volume control involved at that point.

Many "studio" variations and configurations exist. And many people work in strange and mysterious ways.
But part of the reason I was/am confused- I cant recall the last time I touched the master fader in Mixcraft for any reason. In a LONG time. Admittedly, there are some scenarios where one might adjust it, but......

I would also add this. I have four DAW's loaded on the computer before me. I have had occasion to use three or four others in other local settings. I have also had occasion to demo or briefly use a few more.
None has had any fader configuration I would call much of an improvement over what Mixcraft offers. Several fall far short in comparison.
So I am kind of at a loss here.

[Mark Bliss]

It suddenly occurred to me that perhaps a portion of the perceived problem is related to project levels that are generally too "hot" in the first place and that this needs to be addressed?

[guitbuddy]

I brought this subject up just to address what I thought was a simple software fix. However, its apparently opened up bigger, more insidious arguments. { that I had no intention of touching on }

Reading that article { a bit above my pay scale, however } and addressing Mark.

I think the problem returns to the longstanding problems of making music on a computer.

I'm talking specifically here, about the unexpected assault of ear splitting volume from my computer when opening mixcraft. And the LACK of nuance, ease of slid-ability, and options in the main mixcraft volume control. { the whole point of this thread}

Plus the lack of help from Windows. Plus the lack of hardware help on my computer for volume control.

Now, per the article it seems the software companies are blaming the COMPUTER hardware companies and vice versa for these problems.

The artist loses.

As for COMPUTER HARDWARE solutions, where are they? I've only had one gaming laptop with
a good volume control, the rest nope, terrible.

It's returning unfortunately back home to me, to the old argument of artists:

" I just hate making music on a computer! "

I thought I was done with that argument! Yes other DAW softwares may have the same lack
of insight or creativety - but I was hoping mixcraft could lead the way with better software, volume control solutions, etc. But I'm today feeling a marked resistance against innovation or change.

Hate making music on a computer?

In point of fact - I'd forgotten for the sake of this argument, but I just very recently bought several HARDWARE multi track recorders, for OFF computer music making.

Yep I'm back to it again. Hardware recording on a multi track! My hands on sturdy, dependable knobs.

I opened Mixcraft out of habit, ready to work. But had to grit my teeth with how
it responded.


Software loses.

The problem never ends! Help!

[Mark Bliss]

"Hate making music on a computer"?
Having done it both ways, no contest for me. I'd never go back to the old ways.
But if using tape suits you, use tape! I think the whole point of this is to find what suits you and use that.

You describe the master fader as Mixcrafts "worst feature"
I am not "arguing" when I say "I would like to help you, but dont understand" But-how can something you can (and probably should) completely ignore and not even use can be a "worst feature"?

I dont know what you are using for a "system" and have to make some guesses here. I don't even know for example if you are using a mouse, touch pad, control surface or??
I suspect part of the perceived problem is that you somehow expect the computer itself to be a complete solution by just installing some software. That isn't likely to give a very satisfying experience.
I am assuming you are using a computers sound card? I think perhaps you might find it useful to consider a basic dedicated audio interface at minimum?

If monitoring levels are too loud, adjusting the master fader really isn't the recommended method of addressing that, again, as explained here and in the linked info.

But if you desire, you can adjust the master fader up or down. You can use the mixer view and undock it for a larger fader if the size is causing an issue. You can use the ALT key or Ctrl key modifier to make "finer" adjustments if you wish. You can adjust it by percentages or select a precise value.
Perhaps one or more of those options may help with your troubles with using the "virtual" fader?

You can also double click on it to return it to its default unity setting and adjust the monitoring level from your soundcard/interface output where the proper monitoring volume control is. And where I would recommend the habit of starting/opening the program or project with that volume turned down. Always.

If you are suggesting the master fader should default to something other than unity, on that I do disagree. That would be problematic for about every DAW user I know.

Sorry if trying to explain this and trying to help is taken as "insidious arguing" Its not intended to be at all.
But I've explained it as best I can I think.

[mick]

.

[dpaterson]

Hello (again).

Yeh listen: this is right up there with me complaining that the notes on the piano roll are not uniform in size (which, as it turns out, there is a very good reason for)!!! LOL!!! I'm still finding it hard to believe that it's the Master Volume Slider in Mixcraft that's the reason for this thread (and keep asking myself if I missed something i.e. maybe there's another slider somewhere in Mixcraft that I've not seen).

However, its apparently opened up bigger, more insidious arguments. { that I had no intention of touching on }

Nope. Just trying to help (and maybe have a little bit of fun too along the way is all).

Yep I'm back to it again. Hardware recording on a multi track! My hands on sturdy, dependable knobs.

A bit extreme don't ya think (given the actual issue as you see it)??? This being said: I got some blank cassette tapes and a few blank reel-to-reel tapes (may need splicing to get rid of some crunches here and there) stored somewhere if you want them (and if I can actually find them that is). I think I've got a head cleaner or two as well if you're interested.

But I'm today feeling a marked resistance against innovation or change.

I know you meant something else by this but are you sure this ain't a part of the REAL problem??? Just saying.

Oh well. As I said earlier: you're spoiled for choice insofar as solutions (they just keep coming) is concerned (if you actually WANT this new technology to work you that is).

Regards,

Dale.

[dpaterson]

Actually: this thread has taken me down memory lane!!! LOL!!!

Used to have a Kawai Q80 Sequencer, Tascam 4-Track (forget the model number now), Korg A3, giving my age away!!!

Took WEEKS for me to sequence one song on the darn Q80 (which in this day and age has now been superseded by my wasting days on end playing with plugins). Lost many weeks of work when the "stiffy'" disk packed up now and then. Tascam: great after one or two bounce downs but pretty useless after that. Korg A3 was a different story (and here I'll back you up) i.e. sound / effects out of that thing stuck sh*t into most all of the (software) amp. sims. of today (but still no substitute for micing Marshall amps. up as I do today).

Anyways. Good luck on your quest. Remember: we're here to help!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

Just found the pic. below on the Interweb!!! LOL!!! And you wanna go back to something like this because of the MASTER FADER (does that make you feel better Mark???) in Mixcraft??? LOL!!! No thank you!!! SADLY though: the build quality of this bit of hitech gear was probably much better than some of the new stuff around nowaday especially the FADERS (I've got an almost new mixer in for repairs right now i.e. two gain knobs "scratching around"!!! LOL!!!). Hmmmnnn... I cannot actually remember whether or not the MASTER FADER controlled the mixdown (to tape) level or acted as a VOLUME CONTROL (I seem to remember it was switchable for this purpose i.e. note the switch above the MASTER FADER) (but maybe not a good idea to mention this here).

P.P.S.

I'm outta here. Way too much fun. And am betting this thread is gonna bite me!!! LOL!!!

Tascam.jpg (154.56 KiB) Viewed 4290 times

[chibear]

OK so if the OP insists on sticking to the present setup and workflow, what would be wrong with a brickwall limiter on the master bus which would be deactivated just before final mixdown? I've seen this recommended elsewhere for people concerned about hearing damage.

[Mark Bliss]

Yeah, your a lot of help Dale! LOL!

I had a Tascam recorder at one point briefly, after I no longer had my mixer and multitrack reel to reel tape machine. It wasn't very good IMO.
And I also don't recall the details, but it was analog. Fundamentally different than setting gain into a converter anyway.

And it also doesn't help when I try to show some tip on Mixcraft and right click on the master fader and sure enough there it is right in the menu. "Master volume"
Thanks for that guys!

But it doesn't change a thing. Just confusing terminology, that's all.

And yes, Chibears idea might be a potential workaround. I guess.
There's also other dedicated plugs that do this kind of thing.
And that brings back the topic of opening from a template.
So many options.

[mick]

.

[sjoens]

One should always check/set output volume BEFORE doing anything else.

The main volume fader in MC8 stays put when saving a project. Otherwise it slides very easily for me. New projects default to -0- as they should but having no sound data there's nothing to hear at any level.

I use an ASIO interface and -0- the volume when shutting down so there's no audio overload when starting up again.

[comedians]

I think this should be high in the top ten worst and most ridiculous suggestions !