I've been getting better and better results within mixcraft every day now. I have also been closely comparing WAV-files mixed down from mixcraft with other songs from Celine Dion, Michael Jackson, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Madonna, and Jennifer Lopez, since those songs have been mixed and mastered in some of the best studios in the world through the best analog hardware and mixing desks on the planet by the best producers and mixing engineers.
Let me tell you people, the sound coming out of mixcraft is world-class, second to none, my mixes are achieving the same translucent warm magical distortion-free sound and volume levels as all these other world renowned artists. Basically what i'm saying is that any reservations i might have had about mixcraft are well and truly gone. So i have to ask myself, and anyone who dares to contradict, what is the use of Pro-Tools or Cubase or Sonar X1 or any $500,000 SSL Solid State Mixing desk, there is no use for them, mixcraft has shown them to be snake oil; believe me people, for anyone who is wondering or just a beginner to making music, there is nothing in mixcraft preventing you from producing world-class songs, and i mean world-class; the only thing stopping you will be your own skills, because however far you want to push it, mixcraft will accommodate you, how do i know, i have the proof in front of me.
This is a praise report for the people at Acoustica now that i have finished and mixed-down my song-project from mixcraft to a WAV-file. What beggars belief is how the hell a $149 piece of DAW software can equal million dollar studio's...i guess what i am saying is, that the proverb which says "you get what you pay for" in this instance has been proven a misnomer, and well really a myth which has now been debunked; maybe acoustica should apply for a slot on the Mythbusters television programme to prove it, because my money is on mixcraft.
I will not be looking back, there is no greener-grass on the other side of the fence as far as i'm concerned, and no doubt Acoustica is only going to make mixcraft even better with each new version. From now on it will not matter to me who i run into that uses another DAW, i will feel fully secure about the position i am in with mixcraft
Hey, thanks for your report, it is very encouraging! I still have Mixcraft 5, and I am looking forward to upgrading as soon as I have some spare cash on hand. (Tells you how broke I am and how cheap Mixcraft is!)
I have been using Mixcraft since the day I ran into it randomly online back when it was Mixcraft 2. I have tried other DAWS, but none of them allowed a newbie/hobbyist musician like me to quickly get up and running so quickly, and recording decent quality music in no time! It's so awesome, especially considering the fact that I have been chronically short of cash for years, yet, I am still keeping up with the newest versions. (Well, soon, rather!)
The quality of sound that I get from my recordings is excellent. Any limitations or flaws in sound in my music is entirely from my lack of skill in refining my stuff.
BTW, if anyone can recommend a free or very cheap resource to me and others on how to learn things like Eq'ing and mixing for newbie/part-timers like me, that would be great!
Thanks!
skowog wrote:
BTW, if anyone can recommend a free or very cheap resource to me and others on how to learn things like Eq'ing and mixing for newbie/part-timers like me, that would be great!
Thanks!
I've plugged this before, because it really has been a great inspiration to me. Tons of free videos, a free e-book EVERYBODY should read and a weekly newsletter if you want to subscribe (for free). Don't be put off by the fact that he uses Protools - his principles apply to any DAW.
Well worth a look especially for noobs (myself included)
And thanks zardak for your post. I very recently decided on MC6 Pro Studio after evaluating Protools and Reaper. Although new to recording (but 50 years playing in bands) the main features I like are the neat interface and ease of operation. So I decided to stick with MC and learn it from the ground up.
I'm most encouraged by your rave reviews - thank you!
Old Dudes Rock! Trevor OFC™ Founding Member Dell 3050 SFF; i3; 32 gig RAM; MX 8, 9 and 10.5 Pro; Win 11 Pro
Focusrite Solo; Sennheiser HD650 cans
Greg, i just had a thought. With all the handy links in this thread (quite diverse) well really it's like all you need in one place, it appears this thread could qualify as an important resource in itself. I lot of newcomers would surely be wondering about such things and these links seem indispensable. I thought that maybe you might want to pin this thread near the top of the page as a "sticky thread." You can wipe my name from the opening post if you like. I'll understand if you don't respond to this suggestion, but it was just a thought, cheers.
Also for others who are wondering, as an adjunct to the links; sometimes i myself shun tutorials etc because a lot of the time the info seems not directly relevant to my own particular circumstances: I like to understand things in a "nutshell," so i would like to put in my 2cents about what i deem the most pertinent and relevant advice about the whole subject of mixing and mastering.
Firstly, the function of mastering is not to make a bad-sounding mix sound good, it is designed to make a good-sounding mix sound better. So it is important to make sure the song or project sounds good at the mixing stage. How does one do that? Well it's a combination of your own wants and needs and what you are trying to achieve, but i have found some universal factors which apply to all songs when it comes to mixing.
The reverb will have a major affect on the quality of your mixes, meaning you may be able to use an ordinary sounding reverb to put a sense of ambience into the mix and that will definitely be better than no reverb at all, but the quality of the reverb is what gives a lot of world-class music that WOW! factor, believe me. So think about a high end reverb. The one that is provided with mixcraft pro studio 6 is definitely a good starting point and more than adequate for release-quality music, but for the sake of diversity, if you want another quality reverb that gives that high end sound, TC Electronics M30 reverb is a major player which has that Lexicon type calibre, and is only $30 (that price is simply unbelievable) this reverb is definitely up there with the best of them, in fact only Lexicon sounds better and even then only by a slim margin.
Secondly, the volume of each particular sound in the mix also has a big impact on how the "whole" mix sounds, just changing the volume of one particular sound can throw-out the balance of the whole mix (in fact just one sound with rogue volume-levels can give you the false impression that the whole mix is crap), so make sure each sound is not overriding other sounds or sitting too low in the mix like an annoying pesky mosquito . If you get the volume-level of each sound correct (to complement the others) then the whole mix will take-on a 3D type sound and you will be grinning from ear-to-ear.
If any particular sound in the mix still doesn't sound quite right regardless of good volume-levels or reverb and sounds a bit raw and upfront, then throw some nice gentle compression over it with a bit of eq (you don't have to use eq, but it may be needed, experiment and you will be surprised) (I have found the free "ANTRESS" "modern compressor" to be perfect for such a task using the default preset with the gate function switched off) you'll be amazed at how a bit of gentle quality compression can fix such things, and that's all there is to it for those issues.
If the melody or contribution of one particular sound in the mix doesn't sound quite right, don't hesitate to rip it out and replace it with something else more appropriate. Also be careful to make sure that the bass is sitting at the right volume in the mix, this can be a rogue agent if you don't keep an ear-out for what it's doing, too low or too high, and it will give the mix the hebejebees.
Thirdly, IMO mastering is not the arcane art that some would like to suggest (trust me on this one, and don't insist that i prove it) it is simply to polish the mix and give it a little WOW! factor including some extra overall volume, not to fix a bad mix (although sure, if you insist, mastering can go some way to help making a bad mix sound acceptable). So pull-out your favourite mastering processor or chain of effects you like to use for such a task, and just aim to enhance (remember, the mix is already supposed to be sounding good) what is there, if you are using good quality compression and eq then you can achieve a lovely translucent sound that glues the mix together without squashing it.
My favourite way of applying mastering is to start with an EQ (I like to use 5 or 7 band, but if you must, 3 or 4 band will do just fine), and after that i insert some type of analog modelled tape or tube or transistor saturation (don't overdo it), then plaster a three band compressor over it (get those settings right for the mix at hand:with multi-band compression i like to use exactly the same settings in each band), and finish by strapping a transparent limiter over the whole mix, and WALLAH! We have lift-off.
And finally, keep it simple stupid, quality is better than quantity. This is my 2cents for those who wanted advice about mixing and mastering in a nutshell. The rest is up to you my friend, and don't ask me to wash your socks for you. LOL.
Thanks for the suggestion! I've created a "sticky" thread in the tips forum that could be used as a central clearinghouse for links to pages with good info on improving your audio skills.
Well thanks Greg, to be honest i have never really looked in any of the other acoustica forum categories except the mixcraft one. i guess i better go take a look-around.
Great but I am not sure I understand why we have another entire forum with the same questions and topics as here. Maybe I am unclear about how the topics may be seperate but isnt it a bit confusing? Wouldnt it be better if the Mixcraft recording tips were right here?
Not complaining, just wondering, and thanks either way, it was kind of what I had in mind when I started the "mixing and mastering-general discussion" thread. We must have been thinking the same thing.
And here is what I am thinking. (And Zardac, I this may seem to call you out here personally although I dont want you to take it personally)
Here is our challenge.
How about if we share some of our results and give some tutorials on how you made them? Here is a teaching opportunity! I am no expert, just trying to learn all I can about how to use this stuff myself, but isnt it a great thing when we share as we learn? And that challenge is open to anyone and everyone! Maybe the hands on experience is better, I dont yet know, here I am, reading and studying and not yet getting much actual experience in the computer recording world as I try to climb the learning curve to get from my old analog tape mindset into the digital realm. (and hey give me a break I am an old fart)
I want to hear whats so great about that $300 reverb and I also want to hear what can be tastefully and artfully crafted with far less. And I am having a terrible time finding any useful information on getting any decent use of a VSTi! I can get the sounds, but they are flat, lifeless and uninteresting compared to the lush and animated mixes I hear elsewhere. I am not talking about just mixing and effects chains, but presets and making the things functional and interesting! I look at this stuff everywhere and am just overwhelmed by the results I hear yet quite underwhelmed by the information I find on getting any similar output!
Several regular posters have unabashedly stated they havent the slightest desire to even review the manual, or even take the time to watch the video tutorials. (Which are the greatest aid provided by the Acoustica staff in my opinion!)
Again Zardac, this is no flame, I actually am trying to encourage you, and others to share what you are learning. I certainly agree that Mixcraft is something special and I have this overwhelming sense of great potential!
I also feel this very forum holds the key to the mysteries. The mods are the most patient I have ever witnessed, carefully guiding people through third party software problems, personal computer problems, frequent and repeated basic questions that are right there available by at least skimming the manual or at the very least sitting through the video tutorials. (Kudos again guys!) And just a thought, they might get some time free'd up to work on some new tutorials for MC6 if we just let them......
What I am getting at ultimately is that this forum is here to help us get the best out of the product, maybe some more of us could put some of our best into making this an even better resource?
Just some thoughts, and always, best regards to all!
Mark
Sorry about the long rant, really was meant to be encouraging.
I am finding much of the recording world difficult to tread right now. It doesnt help that I have traditional tastes and feel songs should still have some combination of intros, choruses, leads, bridges and outros most of the time. No offense to others tastes but this stuff that has one drum and one bass line and other repeating elements throughout just makes my head feel like its going to explode about 30 seconds in.......
So I find that when I seek out ideas for adding a subtle synth pad element or try to add a little sample or loop element into my style of music to fill things out a little or add interest, I am bombarded with this hyper compressed, repeating audio madness that makes me feel like all the DAW world wants to be a DJ in a dance club!
I have found a few gems, and am working through this, but often the tutorials <EDIT TO CLARIFY: not Mixcrafts, third party> are way over my head and I feel lost from the start. So any tips on good basic recording are still welcome here in my camp. And I suspect theres some talent here in this forum holding out on us.
So heres another suggestion. Greg, Eric, anybody? What software are you using for the screen recordings you use? Maybe some of us can learn this little trick and supply some more comprehensive (and comprehendable) tips of our own? Words often just dont convey the message that well........
Again, thanks to all
Mark
Last edited by Mark Bliss on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
I also like to have things explained simply, and I also like to have things explained with maximum clarity and logicalness. So the best i can do for you is impart my little-bit of knowledge about how i understand the whole process. But before i start, yes, i understand that you eschew certain types of music, but really, for example, even though i don't like country-and-western music or thrash-metal, i still find that when done nicely, those genres of music can sound very listenable. The same with doof-doof music which you don't like, which i happen to make; there are many bad examples out there which take advantage of the easiness with which these tracks can be made, and for some reason manage to get it released, probably more about who they know than the track/song being any good. But in my case, with me being a perfectionist, i like to put out music which uses the cliche 4/4 driving beat as a secondary thing, i don't use it as a cop-out or fill-in as if to make up for lack of skills; so to summarize, i feel that there are good and bad examples of any genre of music.
Now about creating tracks/songs...first thing is to be creative, which like it or not, is a very draining process, plus you will find that dedication and diligence and tenacity have a lot to do with producing a top-notch track/song. The end result will be directly proportional to the amount of effort you put in, so it makes things easier if making music is a "passion' for you, and not just a hobby, since any one for whom it is a passion will always be prepared to go the extra mile to achieve good-quality results, and thereby be able to compete at the highest levels; also, those for whom it is a passion will be more willing to spend the money on getting higher quality tools (in this case, plugins) which ultimately will have a large impact on the "quality" of your end results.
Firstly i don't conform to the typical composition protocol or ethos, but i find that doing things in a coherent balanced way as regards composing a track/song nearly always ends up being close to the traditional composition ethos anyway, whether i intended it that way or not.
So my understanding is that there are three stages to making a track/song...composing the melodies and elements in the song, then mixing the elements/sounds/ingredients in that track/song, and then finally, mastering it.
No one can help you with the composing part, that is entirely up to you, what sounds you use, and what you want to do with them and how you want to program or play them.
The mixing stage, well yeah, i can give some handy hints, as stated in my previous reply in this thread, but really, i have found that no matter what sound i am using, at some point i usually end-up having to make adjustments to it in order to get it sounding more pleasing to my ear if i am not happy with it, so some type of eq or compression will usually be very helpful for doing this, just to get rid of the raw tone and make it a happy camper within the mix to suit "your" needs...but there are no rules, you may be quite happy to leave all the sounds raw and not add any eq or compression at all, and many times this is also legitimate, since volume levels of each sound will usually have more of an impact than these other things like eq and compression, but sometimes you might find that certain frequencies of one or more sounds are interfering or clashing with other sounds in the track/song, so this is where usually eq and compression will come into it, just to remedy the situation. It just depends on if you are happy with the sound in it's original state or whether you feel the need to sculpt it a bit to get it sounding the way you want or require, it's all up to you, i repeat, there are no rules.
Next, i do find that to give a track/song a more professional sound, the reverb will have a lot to do with that; so i can recommend to you three which i feel are up to the task, because cheaper reverbs will frustrate you no-end if they are not very good, so the ones i have settled on are Wavearts Masterverb, TC Electronic M30 reverb, and the free vst Ambience, between those three there is noting i can't achieve, i deem them world-class, the Wavearts Masterverb is $149, the TC Electronic M30 is $30, and Ambience is free, now i think $179 is pretty damn cheap to achieve such a high level of reverb quality within the mix. Outside of that i find that the free Antress modern-compressor plus also the Classic-compressor which comes included with mixcraft is certainly capable of excellent results; and well, eq's, mixcraft has the GSXL4070 which is very good and up to the task, plus there are many third-party free ones which will do the job, i find that "Boot-Eq" free vst can do a great job for eq duties. So there you have it, the three things i deem the most used and most important, the staples, are Eq, Compression, and Reverb, outside of that it's all about creativity with different types of effects as part of the "creative" process during mixing. Mixcraft has some great ones built in like "TwistHead" and "FAT" etc that are capable of giving a helping hand for tailoring the sound to get a warmer or fuller or grittier sounding instrument with some old-world analog-sounding charm if that's what you want.
Finally for mastering to get your track Radio-ready, Google a few tutorials about how to use compression, since the main part of mastering involves compression, and as such you might be interested in learning some of the basics, and remember, don't get too caught up in the technicalities of it, just use your ears, that will be the best guide. I use Izotopes "Alloy" processor for my mastering duties, it is capable of world-class results and i deem it to have everything in it which one might need for 99% of the task of mastering a track/song. The process and formula which satisfies me is to apply four things, 5 band Eq, tape or tube emulation, 3 band compression, limiting.
Also, last but not least, make sure you have accurate headphones and/or monitors, since this will help a lot with your ability to create a "balanced-sounding" mix. I use "Kicker 541" headphones, they are reference-class quality and surpass the performance of a lot of so-called "audiophile" headphones, and would you believe it, they are only $129, however i do use a portable headphone amplifier with them, since a portable headphone amplifier drives the headphones to perform at their true potential and gives uber-good listening by pushing the signal through the impedance-coils in the headphone "properly" which ultimately gives extra accuracy and clarity, so good monitoring is really quite important. If you end-up getting a headphone amplifier, as far as relates to monitoring duties, make sure it is clean and neutral, not a character amp, they range anywhere from $40 to $700, i have found that the popular FiiO E6 does a fantastic job and is only about $50. I hope all this input from me will help you somewhat, otherwise i don't know what else to tell you really.
Apart from everything just said in reaching out to your plea, i'm not sure what more i can say to you unless you ask more specific questions, and if you do, then i'll be happy to answer with more specific things from my point-of-view. cheers.
Well crap, I spent a bunch of time on a reply that failed to post...... drat.
Anyway, thanks for the effort Zardac, I sense your desire to help, but either I was unclear (probable) or you misunderstood. I will attempt to both respond to your post and clarify if possible.
First, to some degree I was speaking in the third person and not necessarily about my specific needs or desires. I have been recording off and on since the early 80's, and though I am still somewhat new to the digital/DAW realm, I feel I have a pretty good grip on the basics. I have been learning Mixcraft specifically and following this forum since demoing version 4 or so. I have read the manual fully, use it for reference, watched the Acoustica video tutorials, many of them multiple times and studied, and continue to study every related resource I can find. The topic I was trying to raise was basically on ideas to improve this forum as far as helping others and each other get more out of the amazing potential of Mixcraft and this forum.
I dont feel that music composition or creativity is the issue, nor do I feel that it is necessarily a relevent topic for this particular forum. I hear you on your point on dedication however, having for example spent as many as around 40 hours at times on just one track just getting a drum sequence or mix just right to suit me. In the time I have been following the threads in these forums I have seen many excited newcomers seem to soon fade away and expect there will always be a steady stream, its just human nature. Especially when we find out something takes a lot of work, and we are prone to move on to the next source of "instant gratification." But there is also an audience of users with the dedication to stick with it and an opportunity for them to move forward.
There will also always be a stream of people sorting out download and registration issues, then there are the interface/latency and PC issues, Then the third party plug-in and midi controller issues. With all due respect to the great Moderators and administrators here, I would like to suggest that maybe these issues all need their own group or threads, and that we could have another, aimed primarily at tips and tutorials for recording, mixing and such, and that some people who have some experience could do more to share what they have learned in these areas. Hey I only just learned there is another group on the specific topic of plug-ins, and I have been around here awhile!
The body of your post covers some of the same things that have been posted before and are covered quite well in the video tutorials, which for me at least are a lot more effective than a page of wordy descriptions. I feel pretty comfortable with the results I get most of the time and am learning something more all the time. I can put some light finishing touches on a mix and be quite happy with it. As for "radio ready" mixes, well LOL, hey, Im just doing this stuff for fun and my own personal enjoyment really, no such high aspirations!
And I didnt mean to "dis" anybodys personal tastes in music, just pointed out a problem with the bias of a lot of recording tutorials out there. (Not referring to Acousticas either.) For instance you can find tutorials on side chaining compressors for "ducking" effects, which are interesting, but I just dont see much use for that in my music. I would like to find some good information and ideas on beat synched delays however as an example. Another area I mentioned was getting fuller and more lively and interesting sounds out of some of the VSTi's. I have been trying to learn midi some too, but it seems most of the newer software does a lot of the heavy lifting for you, but some entry level information there would be helpful, as I find much of this mind boggling. The people using that stuff sometimes seem to me to be from another planet. Same goes for some of the higher end plug-ins I look at. Bunch of virtual knobs and sliders and such. Hey, this cats only got so many years left in him, can't learn how to use them all! Forget these complex synths..........
So I guess my point is to call some of you out. You say your getting some great results, lets hear them! And lets see some tips on how you did it! I dont care what the genre is or if its cinematic, spoken word, voice overs, whatever. Share the wealth! I see raves about specific plug-ins and want to know, whats so great about them and how are you using them? The companies that create them sure arent doing very well at it! I intend to put my money where my mouth is and hopefully soon, show some tips on things I have learned, no matter how simple. I just have to learn how to convey some of it visually. Might have to work on a video or something.
One last thing, Zardac mentions using headphones for monitoring and for the most part I agree. But be sure to also listen to your mixes in other settings on other equipment. Burn a disc and listen in your car, on your home stereo, a PC sound system and even on a digital music player. Compare the mix and overall volume to commercial examples from a similar genre. Another tip, when mixing, it often can help to turn away from your screen and quit focusing on the cursor or waveforms, just listen, and when you are tired, take a break and come back to it later refreshed. Headphones are also very important for another reason, it reduces the odds that your roomates, family or significant other will plan your murder as you listen to a track over and over and over. And over some more.
The headphone amp is a nice touch, as is the luxury of a decent near field monitor set up, but nothing will substitute for training your ears to be the ultimate reference.
And dont fall into the loudness war trap my sound engineer friends. The future of fidelity depends on you! Learn about headroom, and dynamic range. Please!
Ok, I also have to mention that I havent been over to mixcraftlive.com to see what music has been posted in so long, well in fact when it was so new there was nearly nothing there........... So while I pry this partially inserted foot out of my mouth I will give some of the work there a listen, and see if it negates any of my previous rambling thinking out loud session..........
Looks like I might be there a while!
Well, making dance-music is my "passion," thus i have no problem with persevering and spending many arduous hours trying to perfect the mix. No new song or project ever gets any easier, since each new song needs a new approach and calls for the creative process all over again and each new sound needs to me made to fit with the other sounds and a lot of concentration and dedication is required to come-out successful. The emotional roller-coaster is quite a ride, pits of despair and depression mixed with jubilance and elation, up and down and round and round until the mix is "finished" ready for burning to CD; the burning to CD part is a real "buzz' for me, the fruits of my labour on a shiny new digital CD disk, what a buzz, i'll never tire of it.
Anyway, i re-iterate, the most important effect for me to compete with the big-boys is reverb. That may be a handy hint for you, since the quality of the reverb makes a "huge" difference to the sound of the mix (if used properly and competently). You say your ready to put your money where your mouth is, well if that's the case make damn sure you get a really good reverb. I have done all the research i will ever need to do and have concluded that Lexicons "MPX Native Reverb" is one hell of a top-notch verb and only costs $199, in addition to that the TC-Electronics M30 reverb ($39) is basically as good for much less if you are on a budget, and my alternative back-ups are the free Ambience reverb and Epic-Verb, which are pretty handy as a back-up alternative but certainly not as good-sounding as the former two. I had the wrong impression of the new one included with Mixcraft, i intially listened to it for a few seconds and thought wow they have nailed it, but when subsequently using it in a mix, well, it turned out to be not so good at all. My go to EQ for mixing is Boot-EQ (free VST) that works magic in the mix and sounds wonderful and musical, plus it is very versatile, then my go to compressors are Mixcrafts included Classic compressor and the Antress (free VST's) Modern compressor plus Modern Lost-angel, between those three there is nothing i can't get done with their slightly different but great characteristics. So with reverb, EQ, and compression tools covered and at-hand, then the rest is creativity and getting down to business. One more thing, too many people are using shit sounds, including a hell of a lot of those crappy soft-synths, they sound impressive in isolation when listening to them on their own, but really they just don't cut-it in my books, that was one of the reasons i bought Mixcraft, some of the synths they include are fantastic, and so that is a really good place to start, good-quality synths that sound like phat analog hardware, how can you go wrong if you use "quality" sounds.
As far as the ability to achieve a world-class sounding finish, mastering, well, i have found that the Izotope "Alloy" processor is dynamite for me, plus as a bonus it doubles as a tracking processor superbly (which apparently it was specifically designed for) but it uses the exact same algorithms as Ozone 5 so it is cheaper and every bit as good as Ozone but with more versatility, can't go wrong, i fully endorse it without reservation, the only thing wrong with it is the Limiter section where it performs shockingly bad, so i have had to switch that off in the processing-chain and strap on a third party one which is "ultra transparent" that being Sir-Elliots free "Peak-Limiter II " it performs on par with the Sonnox Brick-wall limiter, and the difference between it and Izotopes limiter inside Alloy and Ozone 5 is night and day. It even performs as well as PSP Audiowares Xenon Brick-wall limiter and the UAD mastering limiter, so to get that for free is awesome, since the other ones are very expensive and there are not many around which perform to that standard.
These are the things i deem important to me, other than that, there's not much more i can share about the matter, since these are the few things which i am more concerned about, except i will say as you probably are well-aware of, let your ears be the guide and experiment to some extent; i am always going back and forth through the mix for hours on end making adjustments to volume levels and tweaking any effects parameters to get each sound purring in the mix.
. If you get the volume-level of each sound correct (to complement the others) then the whole mix will take-on a 3D type sound and you will be grinning from ear-to-ear.
" it performs on par with the Sonnox Brick-wall limiter, and the difference between it and Izotopes limiter inside Alloy and Ozone 5 is night and day. It even performs as well as PSP Audiowares Xenon Brick-wall limiter and the UAD mastering limiter, so to get that for free is awesome, since the other ones are very expensive and there are not many around which perform to that standard.