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Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:41 am
by aj113
Ianpb wrote:I put it down to oversized chips on shoulders. Anyway...
I been out all day and I've spent the last hour comparing.
Before I started the comparisons I checked the clarity and set comfortable levels through my Shure headphones with high bitrate MP3's using material from Rainbow to the Beach Boys - I don't have a lot of heavy metal.
First, it seems like the audio from that Reverbnation site has improved since earlier, but still not exactly as clear as it could be - still not clear enough to judge the harmonizer on the backing vocals. I then listened to a few other uploads on the site. I don't know if it's general production values but a lot of stuff I listened to there had unclear vocals, and on tracks with busy backing (like yours) the vocals were also being pushed back in the mix, with one exception, by someone called Jared Lee, his seemed clearer than all the others I listened to. I thought the loss of vocal level may be due to heavy-compression, but when I tried applying it on Hawkwind's Silver Machine in Mixcraft (using Waves Renaissance and the Broadcast compressor) the vocal clarity remained intact, although the backing did rise in relation to it. So maybe the compression you applied at mastering stage is contributing to causing the vocals to be pushed back. I imagine they would be clearer if raised a bit more.
However, when comparing the RN track to the one on that link, the RN version is lacking some high frequency content. The one via the link had a little more clarity in the vocals and the cymbals came through better. BTW, despite what someone said on that forum, I do not agree that there is too much high frequency content, but then again I always like a fair amount of high frequency content and prefer the bass to be contained.
Maybe it's that my production values are at odds with yours and others here; I just like the vocals to stand right out with clear lyrics, rather than swimming with the instruments as may be your preference.
I hope this helps.
OK thanks for that. It still leaves me scratching my head. Vocals are high in the mix and crystal clear a my end, pretty much every word of the lyrics can be understood. Certainly nobody other than yourself has said said anything detrimental about the vocals. Just one of those things I guess.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:32 pm
by Studio 919
Has anyone heard of and/or used mmultibandharmonizer?
I found it at
http://www.meldaproduction.com/
Thanks for any input.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:03 am
by Vibrant Audio
It's not that realistic - it's better as an effect than it it as a more realistic vocal harmonizer. The demo tracks on
their product page give you a good idea.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:48 pm
by Brother Charles
I own Antres Harmony FX. It's pretty good. To get the best results, use the chord mode, combined with DAW automation. It's tricky and time-consuming to do, but it yields better results.
However . . . .
I also own zPlane's "vielklang LE". For the money, it is heads and shoulders above its Antares competitors. I've seriously considered upgrading to the full version, but the LE version is plenty for me. I've gotten very good quality, pro-grade results out of it - better than Harmony FX.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:53 pm
by He Who Walks Behind
What I'm about to say is purely constructive criticism and
isn't intended to antagonize anyone.
I think those of you blessed with the ability to sing (especially if you can
really sing, i.e., you're truly damn good at it) will be
much happier with the results of tracking your harmony vocals in real time as opposed to using hardware or software harmonizers. Sure, the technlogy has improved considerably since the introduction of such, but if you want the harmony vocals to be as rich and full as possible,
old school multi-tracking is the only way to go, IMHO.
That said, if your objective is to use the harmonizers
more for effect than as a harmonizer, per se, well, that's an artistic decision and nobody can fault you for making use of such tools in that manner.
It's also possible that the harmony part you want is, say, a major third above the top end of your vocal range and you can't get/find somebody else willing/able to track that part for you. If this is the case, then, yeah, I'd say the ends justifies the means. But, again, if you can do the parts in real time or get them done by someone else, I think you'll really be glad you did it that way.
YMMV.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:51 am
by TrevsAudio
I would totally agree with the above and would also suggest a product like Melodyne.
Whilst it wont suddenly give you a pro sounding voice, it can correct pitching errors and enable you to reach those notes slightly "out of your normal range" just by moving the notes to the correct pitch - much like MIDI editing.
Not cheap, but you don't need the top of range version either - and it works great in Mixcraft 6.1
Also, don't be too hard on yourself. I don't think in terms of a "bad" voice but rather an untrained voice. Anyone has the ability to improve with the right techniques and training - and there's plenty of instruction available out there.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:35 am
by Ianpb
I should also point out that The Beatles always used double troacking on their vocals. It was only after John Lennon complained about having to keep doing it that George Martin and Abbey Road engineers devised automatic double tracking by feeding the vocal track through a tape recorder subject to moderate levels of wow and flutter in order to create the vocal thickening when combined with the original vocal track.. A similar effect is therefore also achieved with software that emulates this effect.
Melodyne is not only also handy for correcting any wrongly sung notes, but my making slight changes to the pitch modulation and pitch drift, saving the file, then combining it with the original to create a similar effect.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:51 pm
by aquataur
I have the Harmony G-XT because my band members are reluctant to sing. Must be a problem of self-esteem, because they
could if they wanted.
So people just see me with a micro and it blows them away every time if I hit the button. Like with every effect, use it with discretion or it becomes pathetic.
-helmut
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:15 pm
by He Who Walks Behind
Ianpb wrote:I should also point out that The Beatles always used double troacking on their vocals...
This has also long been the practice by a certain American pop group who were contemporaries of The Beatles: The Beach Boys. They took it a few steps further at times and did
triple and quadruple tracking 
on some parts. (I'm a huge fan of both The Beatles and The Beach Boys and part of my attraction to both are the harmony vocals.) Anyway, the technique of vocal doubling just sounds terrific.
I read somewhere that double tracking the vocals also serves as a "defacto AutoTune". Psychoacoustically (I did
not make that word up!) speaking, the slight differences (i.e., a few cents above or below pitch) that naturally happen when you double a vocal blend together and smooth one another out in such a way that they
sound like they're perfectly in tune. (I want to cite Craig Anderton as the source of that tidbit, but I wouldn't swear to that under oath...)
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:11 am
by Ianpb
I read somewhere that double tracking the vocals also serves as a "defacto AutoTune". Psychoacoustically (I did not make that word up!) speaking, the slight differences (i.e., a few cents above or below pitch) that naturally happen when you double a vocal blend together and smooth one another out in such a way that they sound like they're perfectly in tune. (I want to cite Craig Anderton as the source of that tidbit, but I wouldn't swear to that under oath...)
I've found this to be the case when I've done sloppy vocal tracks and then applied automatic double tracking with Soundspectral's DoublerX.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:26 am
by gypsy101
for perfect double tracking I find it easiest to do the loop w/ multiple overdub lanes thing on small parts @ a time. like 1/2 a verse.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:43 am
by outteh
Her's another method that I use to create vocal harmonies. After I record the vocal track I create a duplicate track. Then using the pitch adjustment in the Sound tab in Mixcraft, I set the pitch of the second track to a +2 or -2 (sometimes more or less). If you want 3 part harmony, duplicate the track again and adjust the pitch. If you pan the duplicate tracks about 30-50 percent left and right you can get a pretty good effect. I have done this on several songs I have posted in Mixcraft live under artst T-Guitar. It may not be "true" harmonizing but it sounds pretty good. This is basically what most of the plug-in harmonizers do although on a much more grander and precise scale.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:52 pm
by warhenk@yahoo.com
Greg, outteh, can this be done in Mixcraft 8? I don't see any pitch controls in the Sound tab. Is it now done through Melodyne? I realize this is an old thread but I hope you see it. Thanks!
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:36 am
by outteh
Yes, you can still do this in Mixcraft 8 and 9. Use the sound tab and make sure it's not set to follow the project key. Then set the pitch/key to - or + using decimal increments i.e. .2, .3, etc.
Look up page 92 in the user manual.
Re: Vocal Harmony
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:16 am
by warhenk@yahoo.com
Thank you Tom, I will! You know what it was- the darn double arrows at bottom to open the sound tab to its full display! That's why I didn't see anything.