"If I Didn't Care" - let the mix begin

[freightgod]

Here's my first rough mix of this project:

https://soundcloud.com/if-i-didntcare/m ... 12015p-101

If anybody at all wants a hand at mixing this down, please PM me with your email and I'll send you an invite to join the Dropbox project folder.

outteh (Tom) is going to give this a go first, and I assume he'll be exhaustive (and probably exhausting!) in his explanations of what he did and what he's thinking. I won't bother explaining my mixing process yet, until I get my paws on the project again, because this is the phase I have a lot to learn about, and I'm really interested to see what someone else with decent hearing can do.

You can take my rough mix above as pretty much an indication of where I personally think things sit well, and more or less how things sound balanced in my ears.

OK, Tom, over to you! I'm looking forward to just having some conversation for a while, this has been a lot of fun tracking and getting all the contributions together and organized, but I'm exhausted.

I'll post Soundcloud updates of mixdown attempts as they come. Please comment, ask questions, make suggestions, and have fun with this. Thanks everyone who has contributed so far!

[outteh]

Mixdown in progress!

[AHornsby]

Gung Ho Joe is in the house.

[freightgod]

https://soundcloud.com/if-i-didntcare/01312015h-mix-101

Look what I found, lol. Gung Ho Joe's first crack at mixing this down.

Okay, somebody else start this conversation. It's learning time.

[AHornsby]

https://soundcloud.com/if-i-didntcare/01312015h-mix-101
Look what I found, lol. Gung Ho Joe's first crack at mixing this down.
Okay, somebody else start this conversation. It's learning time.

I'm thinking that anyone can download the *.mx* file and take a stab at mixing... right?

I used a backup file out of fear that I could easily ruin the more recently saved file so without further ado, let the games continue.

Creating music is an art form and we can't expect everyone to be infatuated with every aspect of our work so please, let's all appreciate that sentiment and not have any negative criticism without adding something positive too. It's also fine to ask for criticism but some are apt to add insult to injury when giving their opinions especially, by those who might volunteer unsolicited critiques.

As a new Mixcraft user I was apprehensive at first but then, just went with the flow and had some fun with it.

You can hear my personal (unadulterated) impressions of the project example here:

https://soundcloud.com/quiet-painter/if ... laboration

What impressions do you have of my mix?

[outteh]

Tell us what your concept was for the song and what parts you thought were needing highlighting or emphasis. As you mention, if the mix came out the way you envisioned then it did what you wanted. The owner of the song has last rights and it's the owner we need to satisfy with what his concept is also.

[freightgod]

Thanks for using a backup copy, Harry, I guess I forgot to ask for that.

Okay, my first listen was probably clouded by the fact that I've listened to my own mixdown roughly 20,000 times by now. Sonic memory I think is very very strong, and I think one of the first lessons I've learned already in this process is I've go to give new 'takes' on stuff that sprang out of my own head a fair shot.

That being said, I thing some of the main features of this recording should be...well, featured. Namely, the lead vocal and tuba 'solo'. I find them both pushed far away from center stage.

I feel the background vocals should also be allowed to 'come out of hiding' a bit.

I kind of like the wide spread of the guitars, strings, mandolin and whatnots.

Overall, though, I think there is too much low end and too much reverb going on to allow anything to 'stand out'. Did you apply global effects to master mix?

I guess I'd like to hear what you were aiming for, even if the answer is, just fiddling around. And if you could mention a few of the processes you took to get there, I think that we will all benefit from talking them over.

[AHornsby]

The owner of the song has last rights and it's the owner we need to satisfy with what his concept is also.

That's good to know but there's been no issue taken with "ownership" up to this point. Maybe it's a little late for that and should have been brought up at the outset or, is it wrong to believe that? A collaboration in a public forum is just that and so, who would not see that as a partnership?

I can appreciate the fact that the owner served up one of his works for all to experiment with and it has been a real hoot but, from what I gather in hearing his other efforts to date, he is more than capable of doing all this himself.

If what's been done up 'til now has helped the owner to get closer to his original concept then it's all good but, if he loses out, that doesn't mean he has to like it.

It would be great to see a Mixcraft user make the Boogie Town Top Ten but I believe, frankly, that he's not going to be that 1 in 10,000 with an amateur like me on the project. I just appreciate the opportunity to contribute something and gain a smidge of experience.

[AHornsby]

Tell us what your concept was for the song and what parts you thought were needing highlighting or emphasis.

More than happy to answer later but I'd like to hear the results of some other mixes first. Anybody can try, right?

[outteh]

Harry, not meant to be a critisicm, just a concept. If it came across wrong, I apologize.
What I was trying to determine was what was your goal in mixing it the way you did! If you felt certain parts of the mix didn't contribute to the song, that's great! A little about your approach and what you did to the mix would help us all to learn something!

[freightgod]

Yeah it's all good and for fun. Of course I'll do what I want later with this thing. Go ahead and do stuff, I got backups of the backups

That being said, I did redo my lead vocal and insert a quarter note near the finale. So if anyone wants to hear my second rough mix. I'll talk about my process later though, because there's not much of one at this point

https://soundcloud.com/if-i-didntcare/0 ... didnt-care

[freightgod]

While waiting on Tom, here's a couple questions I have about how or whether people like to start by pressing a virtual 'reset' button when mixing down. I'm trying to come up with a logical workflow, so I'd like to just muse a little and see if anyone would have any suggestions on this possible ordering of things:

1) I think I will try just setting all balances to center, getting relatively equal levels on everything, and disabling any and all effects, even (or especially) any effects built into the Mixcraft vst's I used. But I do wonder about that, those effects sometimes seem so integral to the .vst sounds. Still, I think I'll try that.

2) I think I'd also like to try mixing to mono first. Old school, but it would force me to get each 'voice' sitting in it's own sonic 'space'. I think that would be a great stage at which to apply e.q. and compression (if needed) to the individual voices so that they aren't fighting with each other. I'd like to hear opinions about that.

3) Then I suppose I'd start setting the 'stage' by starting with the strings, of which I have three tracks, 2 ensemble voices and a cello track. We've also got two compimentary guitar tracks, and two backing vocal tracks, which will be placed left and right. Panning these out will of course reduce any 'summing' that went on in the mono mix, so leveling and individual effects like chorus, etc. will have to be adjusted accordingly. Might start thinking about global effects like reverb at this stage, too, I guess.

4) Moving on to staging of mono 'accent' tracks of which I have: accordion, ocarina, oboe, and mandolin. Individual effects added to each voice...

5) The rhythm guitar, which is essential to the song but not the best technically, will probably stay rooted in the center and left in the background a bit. Time to apply individual effects like chorus to the rhythm. I'm sure lots of tweaking of effects on all 'tracks' at this stage...

6) Since bass and rhythm guitar are it for rhythm I guess at this stage it will be time to focus on the bass and how it works with the rhythm guitar. I will need a lot of help here, because I mix to headphones, which are very subjective from model to model, and don't trust my ears anyway. I also think the acoustic bass sound could use just a little 'doubling' with a slight slight hint of fuzz bass, but who knows.

7) On to the treatment of the main vocal. Looking for lots of advice at this stage. This and the tuba solo are the distinctive elements of this recording, in my opinion, so

Tuba next, which will have to work with the bass line, but that should have been more or less sorted in the mono mix. (this and previous step can be interchanged, I suppose, since tuba and lead vocal don't overlap in the arrangement.)

9) Apply global effects, mainly reverb, at this point?

10) Mix this puppy down.

OK, I won't pretend I'm totally ignorant about mixing, I know how to read and stuff. But I've never followed the same workflow twice, as I usually build arrangements voice by voice and generally leave things where they started. But I have probably a dozen 'old' recordings to rework over the next months and probably another 6 or so that will be recorded from 'scratch'. So I really need to get a sensible workflow in place. Or want to, anyway.

Thoughts on this? Even if you're not participating in this project, I'd love to hear from any and all experienced hands. And other goof offs like me. Do you have a process?

[AHornsby]

I'm a gonna stick to my guns on this one especially now, since it has started to rain.

But in case anyone is wondering what I was shooting for it might be essentially similar to this dubstep jolt (which, BTW I found very inspirational -- as far as being interesting --- and head bobbin' good.): https://soundcloud.com/dubstep/excision ... m-premiere

[freightgod]

Tom's first crack:

https://soundcloud.com/if-i-didntcare/02022015t-mix-101
(sync issue near finale as newly timed vocal was dropped in old project file)
and his comments:

Steps

1. Visualize your sound stage and decide where the instruments in the mix will sit, left and right as well as back and front.
2. Gain Stage and volume leveling of tracks
3. Panning, setting the instruments into the stereo
4. Subtractive EQ - Remove frequencies not needed in the track based on the instrument or vocal. Mixcraft 31 Band EQ works well for this. Has some presets that are pefect for most tracks.
5. Additive EQ - Here is where the second instance of an EQ comes in, if needed. I prefer Parameric EQ in this instance for greater control over frequencies. This is where vocals can get some air and sibilence, bass can be boosted and slotted as needed to accomodate other instruments.
6. Adding effects. Reverbs, delays, etc. with critical listening to set your sound stage as you need.
7. Final touches as needed, more critical listening on different systems and mono listening.

Vision/Concept

In the case of Paul,s song, I felt the vocals and guitar work were highlights and whatever was in the lead solo also needed to stand out. So I worked toward having individual space for all instruments and the vocals, then adjusted volumes to highlight areas as needed. I had a tough time because all the instruments played in the same range of frequencies and the risk of muddiness and honkiness was there. I used delay in some areas instead of reverb as it didn't add any extra stuff to the already muddled areas. I left most of the effects on the virtual instruments that were there as they added to the sound of the particular instrument.

[freightgod]

OK, I can sense a rapid loss of interest in this phase of the project Hey, even I am getting sick of this song!

I like a little of what Harry did and a lot of what Tom did and I guess it's my turn to commit to something. I'll be studying what they did and borrowing what sounds right to me, then give this thing some serious attention.

I'm hoping there's more interest and advice forthcoming during the mastering phase. I think it could be very constructive to A/B what we amateurs can do within Mixcraft with what a pro mastering engineer comes back with.

I can still be influenced, if there's anyone wants to chip in on their mixing thought process...