I am wondering how to make money with my music. I know some people make cd's and them market them, but I am no wheres near making a cd. I am the type of musician that makes many pieces, but has trouble bringing these ideas into full songs. I am currently working on several different songs, trying to make them complete.
My question is, how can somebody make money off of their songs if they don't have enough to make a cd and make money that way? Like, lets say somebody made one really nice song, and it was one of them one hit wonders. Is it possible to make money off of just one really good song?
Question to people who make money with their songs
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freightgod
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Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
What is this money of which you speak? 
Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
Am I right in thinking that is the entire Greek national reserve! 
(Apologies to anybody who is Greek I know this was a cheap joke and it must be tough at the moment)
(Apologies to anybody who is Greek I know this was a cheap joke and it must be tough at the moment)
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martinweeks
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Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
Having come up raised by parents who were professional writers (not songwriters) The only advice I could possibly give is watch, listen to implement everything that goes on in this forum. Whether or not you make money is a nice idea, but should remain secondary to your art. Focus on making the best music you can. Don't get dragged into the money trip because music publishing is a very STRANGE WORLD.
It's very hard to protect your income if you develop one as it's so easy now days to download music without paying for it. Convert YouTube Videos to your own Mp3's, sample and so on. It's become more "Biz" than art.
You can attempt to:
1.) Cell your CD's of original songs in dozens of manners from online marketing websites (that will steal you blind if you don't have a lawyer handy) To building your own Website (that involves all manner of SEO/Google Analytical/ YouTube Promotion/email marketing/ fan building/gig-show promotion etc. Then there's the overhead involved with manufacturing enmasse Well packaged CD's/DVD's. Massivie traditional and non traditional advertising aka Marketing Solutions...and so on.
2.) There is also the commercial market i.e. selling commercial based music and songs. That requires lots and lots of quality production. You know how hard it is to get a normal job resume looked at? Well getting a song heard makes traditional job hunting look easy by comparison. You are not only competing against established professional (Tin Pan Alley) pro songwriters in New York, LA, Nashville, Memphis, Miami and Europe (aka Britain/ Spain, and France) You are also competing on a global scale that has songwriting offers coming in from Japan, China, Singapore and South America. Everyone has a laptop and some kind of DAW and a website claiming they know the answer. So buyer beware on this one.
Also the A&R folks who are looking for material need well crafted and easy to edit "Cue" based material so they can splice and dice, and add in voice over for their advertising, that encompasses all the above plus traditional radio/Cable Ads. So you are competing with 100,000's of wanna be's and talented people all submitting millions of potential profit making music.
Do your homework. It's not for the lighthearted, and unless you really LOVE MUSIC WITH DEVOTION while there may be more opportunities then ever before, there is more competition good and bad then ever before.
A good starting place to learn would be of course here in the forum as there are lots of very smart people here who can help you with your craft. But the biz side of this is a beast.
But if you really are serious...start networking in all the different areas I just mentioned. For mixing a great start point is the Recording Revolution.com. This website will lead you by referral to other good tutorial sites for developing your songwriting / mixing mastering product goals.
Go to the ASCAP and BMI and Sound Exchange websites, and start signing up for mailing lists so you can learn from the established publishers and writers. But remember we are talking about 8 hours a day of simply studying and learning the art of your art and the art of your business. Publishing music for profit is a business, make no mistake about this. If you don't treat it with the same respect and effort you would starting up a factory for manufacturing, you will come away from this disillusioned and spiteful. Do you really want to kill that wonderful spirit inside you that lets you create your own beautiful music? Are you emotionally strong enough to tolerate the seemingly endless rejection? Only you can answer that one my friend.
Don't let the other comments ruffle you as they are intended in a friendly humorous manner. WE all want to see our art be successful. We just don't dwell on the money side of it. Perfect your art and craft and with a bit of faith and a hell of a lot of effort you might see some $$ for your blood sweat, tears and chord patterns. Peace!
Marty
It's very hard to protect your income if you develop one as it's so easy now days to download music without paying for it. Convert YouTube Videos to your own Mp3's, sample and so on. It's become more "Biz" than art.
You can attempt to:
1.) Cell your CD's of original songs in dozens of manners from online marketing websites (that will steal you blind if you don't have a lawyer handy) To building your own Website (that involves all manner of SEO/Google Analytical/ YouTube Promotion/email marketing/ fan building/gig-show promotion etc. Then there's the overhead involved with manufacturing enmasse Well packaged CD's/DVD's. Massivie traditional and non traditional advertising aka Marketing Solutions...and so on.
2.) There is also the commercial market i.e. selling commercial based music and songs. That requires lots and lots of quality production. You know how hard it is to get a normal job resume looked at? Well getting a song heard makes traditional job hunting look easy by comparison. You are not only competing against established professional (Tin Pan Alley) pro songwriters in New York, LA, Nashville, Memphis, Miami and Europe (aka Britain/ Spain, and France) You are also competing on a global scale that has songwriting offers coming in from Japan, China, Singapore and South America. Everyone has a laptop and some kind of DAW and a website claiming they know the answer. So buyer beware on this one.
Also the A&R folks who are looking for material need well crafted and easy to edit "Cue" based material so they can splice and dice, and add in voice over for their advertising, that encompasses all the above plus traditional radio/Cable Ads. So you are competing with 100,000's of wanna be's and talented people all submitting millions of potential profit making music.
Do your homework. It's not for the lighthearted, and unless you really LOVE MUSIC WITH DEVOTION while there may be more opportunities then ever before, there is more competition good and bad then ever before.
A good starting place to learn would be of course here in the forum as there are lots of very smart people here who can help you with your craft. But the biz side of this is a beast.
But if you really are serious...start networking in all the different areas I just mentioned. For mixing a great start point is the Recording Revolution.com. This website will lead you by referral to other good tutorial sites for developing your songwriting / mixing mastering product goals.
Go to the ASCAP and BMI and Sound Exchange websites, and start signing up for mailing lists so you can learn from the established publishers and writers. But remember we are talking about 8 hours a day of simply studying and learning the art of your art and the art of your business. Publishing music for profit is a business, make no mistake about this. If you don't treat it with the same respect and effort you would starting up a factory for manufacturing, you will come away from this disillusioned and spiteful. Do you really want to kill that wonderful spirit inside you that lets you create your own beautiful music? Are you emotionally strong enough to tolerate the seemingly endless rejection? Only you can answer that one my friend.
Don't let the other comments ruffle you as they are intended in a friendly humorous manner. WE all want to see our art be successful. We just don't dwell on the money side of it. Perfect your art and craft and with a bit of faith and a hell of a lot of effort you might see some $$ for your blood sweat, tears and chord patterns. Peace!
Marty
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Mark Bliss
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Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
Picture of my laundry room! Where did you get that?marc32123 wrote:https://johnrieber.files.wordpress.com/ ... -bills.jpg
Spit take! I have (beverage) in my nose!marc32123 wrote:I am wondering how to make money with my music........ My question is, how can somebody make money off of their songs........ Like, lets say somebody made one really nice song, and it was one of them one hit wonders. Is it possible to make money off of just one really good song?
Statistically, abysmally, improbable.
CD sales have plummeted for even the most established and accomplished bands. Dead horse. Downloads aren't profitable enough to pursue and its hard to get a bar gig that pays enough to afford a new economy grade guitar. If you are creating music in hopes of turning a profit you are kidding your self.
If you are REALLY good, and can market yourself REALLY well and build a fan base and are willing to play live shows 300+ nights a year, you might have a 1 in 1000 chance of making enough money to live off of for a few years.
Hate to be so cynical, but its true of most any "creative" endeavor. Most of the greatest artists of all time lived in poverty, died broke and were worth more after death than when alive.
That pile of cash in the laundry room didn't come from being a singer /songwriter. Bet on it.
Not only do I recommend not quitting the day job, I recommend getting a good one so you can afford having fun making music. Seriously.
Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
By the way guys, I am not really that money hungry
I just have written some pretty nice quality stuff recently, and am wondering how I could go about actually making some money on it.
Music is definitely not about money for me though, at all. I play because I love to. I understand the music buz is probably a very rough crowd too, but it's def not impossible to make a few bucks with your songs either, if you know how that is. There are people out there making a lot less quality music than what I make, and they are making money off from their's.
In fact, I could really care less about the money aspect of it. What I really would like to do is somehow get my music out there though, so others can hear it. It would be nice to maybe hear my music in a movie or film someday, or somewhere else where lots of others could hear it.
I just have written some pretty nice quality stuff recently, and am wondering how I could go about actually making some money on it.
Music is definitely not about money for me though, at all. I play because I love to. I understand the music buz is probably a very rough crowd too, but it's def not impossible to make a few bucks with your songs either, if you know how that is. There are people out there making a lot less quality music than what I make, and they are making money off from their's.
In fact, I could really care less about the money aspect of it. What I really would like to do is somehow get my music out there though, so others can hear it. It would be nice to maybe hear my music in a movie or film someday, or somewhere else where lots of others could hear it.
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Mark Bliss
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Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
For distribution, you might want to research CDBaby-
http://members.cdbaby.com/
For licensing, synching and breaking into cinema, advertising, game content, general music business, etc:
http://www.discmakers.com/request/compl ... rocess.asp
http://www.musicbizacademy.com/articles/gman_money.htm
You might find some information contacting someone like AudioSparx (there's a bunch of similar companies, cant vouch for any personally.)
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/company.cfm
http://www.musicsupervisor.com/
http://www.productiontrax.com/
http://www.musicdealers.com/
(Thanks to geo524 for those suggested links. You might PM him as well for more info on the licensing etc, he has some experience there.)
But for the amount of work, time, equipment costs..... Actual profits seem likely to be rare, as I pointed out in my previous response.
http://members.cdbaby.com/
For licensing, synching and breaking into cinema, advertising, game content, general music business, etc:
http://www.discmakers.com/request/compl ... rocess.asp
http://www.musicbizacademy.com/articles/gman_money.htm
You might find some information contacting someone like AudioSparx (there's a bunch of similar companies, cant vouch for any personally.)
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/company.cfm
http://www.musicsupervisor.com/
http://www.productiontrax.com/
http://www.musicdealers.com/
(Thanks to geo524 for those suggested links. You might PM him as well for more info on the licensing etc, he has some experience there.)
But for the amount of work, time, equipment costs..... Actual profits seem likely to be rare, as I pointed out in my previous response.
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martinweeks
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:54 pm
Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
For "Low Rent" Money there is always the beats thing. I see it every day. Not going to make you rich or retire in 2 years, but there's always a wanna be DJ out there looking for simple beats for his shows. With the Samplers and performer in MC 7 you can crank that stuff out all day. If you want to spend all night at the clubs b.sing with the DJ's and talking spin doctor that might be worth the pain in the _________
No offense to a previous comment, but I always made decent money in music as a side man player. I wasn't after fame so didn't care what band I played in. It could be a simple three piece country band on Friday Sat night, and a poolside gig doing Margaritaville acoustic with another guitarist on Sunday Brunch afternoon. Depending on where I lived in the country playing street corner would make me $200.00 + a night. Do the math $50.00 to $100.00 for Fri/Sat = $100.00 to $200.00 plus the $200.00 for the hotel poolside there's 3 and street corner playing for 200.00 times a couple of evenings a week that's four.
By the end of the week I'd made around five to seven bills. No wonder I could be a bar back and still have time to do other things. Hmmm...it's not about "MAKING MONEY" in music, it's about leveraging YOUR music (i.e. talent) to make money. Think outside the box. That's why certain folks are killing it while others are wondering if anything will ever happen.
No offense to a previous comment, but I always made decent money in music as a side man player. I wasn't after fame so didn't care what band I played in. It could be a simple three piece country band on Friday Sat night, and a poolside gig doing Margaritaville acoustic with another guitarist on Sunday Brunch afternoon. Depending on where I lived in the country playing street corner would make me $200.00 + a night. Do the math $50.00 to $100.00 for Fri/Sat = $100.00 to $200.00 plus the $200.00 for the hotel poolside there's 3 and street corner playing for 200.00 times a couple of evenings a week that's four.
By the end of the week I'd made around five to seven bills. No wonder I could be a bar back and still have time to do other things. Hmmm...it's not about "MAKING MONEY" in music, it's about leveraging YOUR music (i.e. talent) to make money. Think outside the box. That's why certain folks are killing it while others are wondering if anything will ever happen.
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Mark Bliss
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Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
I might suggest that the fact is that many people lack the objectivity to grasp the difference between income and profit, and that it often contributes to the frequency of which they find themselves in debt, struggling with finances and unable to buy the things they need.... much less want. (Also two often confused objectives.) 
Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
CD sales still account for 40% - 50% of all music sales. Far from a 'dead horse'.Mark Bliss wrote:...CD sales have plummeted for even the most established and accomplished bands. Dead horse....
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Mark Bliss
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Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
Maybe. But that would still be 40-50% of an overall number that has taken a serious dive. Most of those big stores full of racks of CD's are gone and online sales don't account for it. And of those remaining sales, a very small number of artists seem to account for the majority of those sales, and they certainly aren't small indie artists producing their own music.
And even self producing and manufacturing wholesale and self distributing, profit margins are likely to be abysmal.
Take my comments and suggestions in context, and apply them to the real question being asked. How many small breakthrough artists are turning a profit and how many are perhaps producing a little income that wouldn't pay for gas in the van to haul their gear to a gig where they likely distribute merch at cost..........
And the previous comment that there are some with less talent making it work......
Its always been that way. There's some huge talent out there that never gets recognized, much less paid in proportion to relative talent. That has nothing to do with anything. That is why I opined, that even with talent and hard work, its a long shot. Statistically improbable.
And even self producing and manufacturing wholesale and self distributing, profit margins are likely to be abysmal.
Take my comments and suggestions in context, and apply them to the real question being asked. How many small breakthrough artists are turning a profit and how many are perhaps producing a little income that wouldn't pay for gas in the van to haul their gear to a gig where they likely distribute merch at cost..........
And the previous comment that there are some with less talent making it work......
Its always been that way. There's some huge talent out there that never gets recognized, much less paid in proportion to relative talent. That has nothing to do with anything. That is why I opined, that even with talent and hard work, its a long shot. Statistically improbable.
Last edited by Mark Bliss on Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
Well, the topic is addressed to "people who make money with their songs" - so how do you make your money Mark?Mark Bliss wrote:...
Take my comments and suggestions in context, and apply them to the real question being asked. ...
Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
I'm not suggesting you go with iTunes but there is a good amount of information here that may help you ...
http://www.apple.com/uk/itunes/working- ... c-faq.html
http://www.apple.com/uk/itunes/working- ... c-faq.html
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Mark Bliss
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Re: Question to people who make money with their songs
Gary, iTunes is one of the many outlets used by the CD Baby distribution service I suggested.
Have to note however that even well established artists are lamenting the low income produced from selling larger amounts of content than any of us would dare dream of.
Yep, you got me there. I guess I am guilty of following my own advice:
My opinions and words might be strong, my perspective cynical, and my foundation built on observation, but at least it was an effort toward a constructive conversation, instead of a reply with no purpose beyond needling someone about their opinion.
Marc, another thing I have been contemplating. I have read that Youtube has become the #1 primary outlet for music. Many users, much less viewers seem to not be very aware that you can monetize content. And what it seems to come down to is finding a way to get that hit counter rolling. Hit a million views and its all about advertising and eyeballs.
It comes as little surprise to me that upon observation, many peoples success relies very little on musical talent, much less music production or even sound quality. Instead the common denominator is simply marketing and popularity.
I am not going to provide the link to my favorite example of this, because I find it quite tasteless, but how else do you explain an at best mediocre amatuer musician who has posted a dozen (or so) videos posted of herself playing an acoustic guitar and singing cover songs with each video approaching 18 million!!! hits....... All you apparently really need is an exaggerated push up bra and set the camera angle up to make the most of the view.
Try to beat that tactic.
Have to note however that even well established artists are lamenting the low income produced from selling larger amounts of content than any of us would dare dream of.
aj113 wrote:Well, the topic is addressed to "people who make money with their songs" - so how do you make your money Mark?
Yep, you got me there. I guess I am guilty of following my own advice:
And so therefore guilty of sharing opinions without the experience of actually going broke trying to sell my (or anyone else's) music.Not only do I recommend not quitting the day job, I recommend getting a good one so you can afford having fun making music. Seriously.
My opinions and words might be strong, my perspective cynical, and my foundation built on observation, but at least it was an effort toward a constructive conversation, instead of a reply with no purpose beyond needling someone about their opinion.
Marc, another thing I have been contemplating. I have read that Youtube has become the #1 primary outlet for music. Many users, much less viewers seem to not be very aware that you can monetize content. And what it seems to come down to is finding a way to get that hit counter rolling. Hit a million views and its all about advertising and eyeballs.
It comes as little surprise to me that upon observation, many peoples success relies very little on musical talent, much less music production or even sound quality. Instead the common denominator is simply marketing and popularity.
I am not going to provide the link to my favorite example of this, because I find it quite tasteless, but how else do you explain an at best mediocre amatuer musician who has posted a dozen (or so) videos posted of herself playing an acoustic guitar and singing cover songs with each video approaching 18 million!!! hits....... All you apparently really need is an exaggerated push up bra and set the camera angle up to make the most of the view.
Try to beat that tactic.