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Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:02 am
by TrevsAudio
Yes, been a self taught musician 'at it' since 1959, but never got to music theory.
So I'm undertaking a project for a client who wants to do this old song, but I'm going to be preparing my own backing and arrangement; keeping the tempo and feel the same. I start by importing an MP3 of the original into the project as a point of reference.
Problem: Mixcraft autowarps it beautifully, and says the original tempo is 105 BPM. Yet tapping along with it on a BPM counter clearly has it at 70 BPM; and of course the song in no way synchronizes with the metronome.
I'm asking if some knowledgeable person might take a listen and try and identify where I'm going wrong? Time signature maybe? (It's on 4/4 at the moment).
Thank you Mixcraft People
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2OQzk8 ... heRickynow
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:20 am
by outteh
Appears the song was originally done at a tempo of 111 in the ket of f#. Mp3 ‘s are not very reliable at maintaining constant tempo like a metronome or digital beat. I would just use the mp3 as a guide and set up to record the song at whatever tempo works for your singer.
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:32 am
by TrevsAudio
Thanks Tom. Yeah, I thought as much and I normally do roll that way. Just curious to know how MC determined the tempo at 105, but if I tap (1-2-3-4) it's about 69/70 BPM.
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:57 pm
by cactus-head
Could there be metadata in the MP3 file that states a certain BPM and Mixcraft reads that first?
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:38 pm
by outteh
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:07 pm
by TrevsAudio
Now this is weird Tom!
I tried that and get 103 BPM. Yet if I play the song and use this site to tap the tempo, I get an average of 70 BPM.
I'm wondering if it's not the slightly un-timed intro before the verse starts that is maybe throwing it?
Try playing the song and tapping out the beat here
http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:49 pm
by outteh
I think your right. Try using a snippet of the song without that intro and see what you get.
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:06 pm
by bigaquarium
Not sure that this applies, but the beat reference in Mixcraft is quarter note only, so if you have a song that's in 6/8 or something like that, the tempo will be way off, because it is customary to use a dotted quarter note in that situation:
ONE two three
FOUR five six.
Whereas with Mixcraft it's like this:
ONE two
THREE four
FIVE six.
I put in the feature request to change that, we shall see!
Nathan
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 pm
by vizionheiry
bigaquarium wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:06 pm
Not sure that this applies, but the beat reference in Mixcraft is quarter note only, so if you have a song that's in 6/8 or something like that, the tempo will be way off, because it is customary to use a dotted quarter note in that situation:
ONE two three
FOUR five six.
Whereas with Mixcraft it's like this:
ONE two
THREE four
FIVE six.
I put in the feature request to change that, we shall see!
Nathan
Thank you Nathan. I've noticed that Mixcraft gets 6/8 tempo wrong and I've always wondered why. I appreciate your explanation and I'm glad you put in a request. I'm expecting big things for version 10 and hope they deliver all we've requested and more.
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:02 pm
by mellotron
Setting the metronome app on my phone to 6 beats per bar, and tapping along to the song from the first post, after the intro, I get 70-71bpm. I think that opening the project as 6/8 is the answer.
I don't think that mp3 files cause timing issues as much as People do. Older music was not recorded to a click track. People naturally speed up a little and slow down a little during the course of a song. Often times, it is not even noticeable until you compare it to a metronome or click. (Listen to Cinnamon Girl by Neil Young. It seems so slow at the beginning, but only compared to the end. I measured 97/98bpm at the beginning, 108bpm at about 1:20, and back down to 103bpm at the end of the guitar solo!)
Also working on a project for an old song, I loaded an mp3 of the song into Mixcraft, tapped the tempo into the metronome app, set the project to that, then created a virtual instrument track of a hi-hat hit on every beat. I then split the mp3 file every four bars or so, then stretched or squeezed that few-bars segment to align with the click. Here is the resulting file:
- Cut up.png (16.8 KiB) Viewed 4929 times
Notice how, sometimes, I adjust one bar at a time. The tempo wavers that much. Sometimes I stretch two bars and squeeze/shrink the next two bars. I wouldn't even notice that wobble by ear; only the click track betrays the original band.
My way IS time-consuming, but accurate...I will try the warp method.
Re: Dumb Question - from someone who should know better
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:29 am
by TrevsAudio
Thanks so much for your input mellotron - much appreciated