Selecting voice from midi

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apepper
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Selecting voice from midi

Post by apepper » Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:07 am

Hi all,

I've just connected a Yamaha YC61 to my PC and it's appeared in Mixcraft. I can use it as a midi keyboard and, of course, it has lots of built in voices. I can change voices within Mixcraft using program change commands but, of course, I don't know what number goes to what voice. Back in my Cubase days, you could load Midi instrument description files which said which instrument was on which program number so you could choose a voice from a menu. I can't see how you do that in Mixcraft; is that actually possible?

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by Acoustica Greg » Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:06 am

Hi,

Do you have the manual for the Yamaha? Does it have a MIDI chart in it for the voices?

If it has a lot of voices, you might also need to use Bank Select to access them all.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Check out our Mixcraft University 101 video tutorials.

apepper
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by apepper » Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:13 pm

Hi Greg, yes I have the user guide - it does have a lot of voices - my memory of Cubase when I used it was I downloaded a file for my JV1080 module which loaded into Cubase. The JV1080 had 1000s of voices, but with the file loaded, I could choose things like Keyboards->Grand Piano from within Cubase. That's what I hoped (expected!) with Mixcraft.

-Andrew

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Acoustica Greg
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by Acoustica Greg » Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:18 pm

Hi,

No, Mixcraft doesn't have definition files like that.

Greg
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Check out our Mixcraft University 101 video tutorials.

apepper
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by apepper » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:48 am

Ah. is it too late for a version 10 request? They're called Patchnames in Cubase - it came/comes with loads of them for external hardware; I think the JV1080 was built-in, but you could also define your own.

BillB
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by BillB » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:06 am

https://forums.acoustica.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21019

Apparently, no-one wants this, apart from all the people who would like to use Mixcraft to drive hardware synths etc with presets...

Still hoping!

cactus-head
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by cactus-head » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:06 pm

Hello,

I'm not sure if this was mentioned as I didn't read all of the threads and messages in detail but one option, though not an "all at once" option, is to create a preset in the instrument section of Mixcraft. You could choose and External MIDI Device as an instrument, change the channel and program, output the clock information if you want, then save that as a preset. When you choose that preset, if your external keyboard is hooked up, your patch would change to that. Just label the preset with the name that applies to your keyboard's patch.

I don't know if you use 100s of patches or maybe there are a top ten that you use over and over. Most likely you could set up these presets for the sounds you would most often use. If there's a time when you need a new one, add it to the list.

BillB
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by BillB » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:39 am

Cactus-Head. That's a good work-around. The preset system in Mixcraft is pretty good but....

a) If you only wanted a few favourite patches, you could probably save and select on the synth itself.

b) patch definition files have been around for decades (Cakewalk .ins, Reaper Reabanks, plus others) so many synths/modules are covered. All that's needed is the ability to read them and transmit the bank/patch data. ReaControl VST does this (for free) but Mixcraft cannot output the command because it does not let VST effects output MIDI.

cactus-head
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by cactus-head » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:41 am

Peeps,

I think I have a solution of sorts for you.

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/select ... e-software
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/select ... /downloads

The Plugin is called Selector and it allows you to choose hardware patches through it's interface. It allows the loading of *.ins files so you could load any definitions you have in that format. A screenshot is below for Mixcraft. You would add Selector as the first instrument in the chain, and then an external MIDI device as the second instrument. You can add midi clips to the track and dial in the desired patch and you will hear the sounds change real time.

Click the word Open... at the top left of the plugin to load in your *.ins file. I chose a Yamaha MU1000 since I had the definition file on the computer. Works perfectly.


Mixcraft Selector Instrument Order.JPG
Mixcraft Selector Instrument Order.JPG (27.67 KiB) Viewed 418 times

Mixcraft Selector Dial in Patch.JPG
Mixcraft Selector Dial in Patch.JPG (74.19 KiB) Viewed 418 times

BillB
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by BillB » Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:41 am

Thanks for tracking that down, Cactus-head. I think I had seen images of it online but couldn’t find a download link. Got it now and will definitely give it a go.

I don’t yet understand why this would work in Mixcraft when ReaControl doesn’t. Perhaps it is defined as a VST instrument rather than a VST effect... I will report back.

Thanks again for finding and sharing, much appreciated.

BillB
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:58 am

Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by BillB » Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:48 am

First line of ‘how to use’ on the first link you provided:
“Load Selector VST into your DAW as an instrument plugin.”

Maybe that’s the key.

The ability to read and setup CCs also looks very interesting - lots of possible uses for that.

BillB
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:58 am

Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by BillB » Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:30 am

What can I say but - well done Cactus-head :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Using Selector with AkaiSG01v.ins file
Using Selector with AkaiSG01v.ins file
Mixcraft-Selector-AkaiSG01v-1.png (275.22 KiB) Viewed 394 times
So the main point is to be able to select patches from a drop-down list - here it is.
Selecting patches
Selecting patches
Mixcraft-Selector-AkaiSG01v-Patch.png (185.73 KiB) Viewed 394 times
Selecting CCs
Selecting CCs
Mixcraft-Selector-AkaiSG01v-CC.png (194.01 KiB) Viewed 394 times
The CCs are useful too - if they are defined in the .ins file, a click on the label under each virtual knob brings up the list so they can be assigned.

Even better, saving a VST preset saves the CC settings which can be re-loaded to retrieve, say, a high-resonance version of a patch.

Minor downside - it can only load .ins files, not reabank, but with a decent text editor and spreadsheet, it isn't too hard to 'convert' reabanks to ins. I can see I'm going to spend a while going through my reabank/ins files and making sure they are as good as they can be.

BillB
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:58 am

Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by BillB » Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:08 am

All is not completely rosy. Mixcraft crashed twice when I was loading biggish .ins files into Selector, and I have read elsewhere that Selector is ‘buggy’ (single report). So I will proceed with care and see which files or file sizes cause an issue. Unfortunately the developer (or the home website) seems to have disappeared, so there may be no way to resolve any fixed issues. ReaControl might still be the best option...
I am refining some of my .ins files (getting downloaded ones to properly match my gear and add-on cards etc) so will report back with any issues.

cactus-head
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Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by cactus-head » Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:17 pm

Hi,

Try the 32 bit version instead of the 64 bit (if that's what you are using). I'll keep testing. the other thing that may be a factor is a midi feedback loop. If you have output going to from mixcraft to your hardware, and at the same time you have the MIDI input to mixcraft from the same hardware, you may be causing a MIDI feedback loop.

A crash or "anti-crash" test for that would be to turn off ALL midi input devices into Mixcraft for that track. Then load and play with various *.ins files in selector (both 64 and 32 bit) . If you can recreate the crash problems then the plugin itself may be at fault. If you can't force it to crash under the same conditions that it cashed before, then it may be related to MIDI feedback.

The other thing I noticed that when switching *.ins files, unless you change or select the bank also from the drop down list after loading the *.ins file, the bank doesn't function correctly - it continues to point at whatever bank was loaded from the previous ins file. That may or may not correspond to the definitions for the instruments in the newly loaded file. So three things to try:

1. Try the 32 bit plugin
2. Make sure the MIDI input device on the track with Selector is not the same as the ouput hardware device (you may even want to make sure the channels aren't the same)
3. After loading an ins file, make sure to change the bank before playing the hardware or selecting a new patch. Even if the bank is 000. Always select the bank first from the drop down.

So far I haven't run into any crashes using the above testing scenarios. I'll switch back to the 64 bit version and do the same tests.

EDIT: can you post an ins file that caused a crash? I've switched back to the 64 bit plugin and still using the criteria above from 1. and 2. I haven't been able to cause a crash. I've switched between 6 different *.ins files over and over. I'd like to see if one of the files you used can make the same thing happen.

BillB
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:58 am

Re: Selecting voice from midi

Post by BillB » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:18 am

Cactus-head, thank you for testing at your end and your analytical approach. I didn't find any more success with 32 or 64-bit. I am wondering if the .Ins files themselves play a role. Many are likely to have been made by individual users rather than programmers, so may have some inherent errors. If Selector does not have in-built error-checking, it may be that errors in some .Ins files are causing the issue.

Two that have consistently caused issues are:
Roland XV-5080.txt
(51.68 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
Korg_microX.txt
(47.8 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
(Change extension to .ins)

This one runs fine - small and simple
akaisg01v.txt
(4.83 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
The XV-5080 file seems to have issues above Patch > user bank 9 (which suggests an error in the file). Please dont analyse this on my account - I don't have an XV-5080, it was just one of the bigger files to test.

The MicroX file doesn't run at all.

I haven't had time to test consistently but the 32 bit VST seems to freeze Mixcraft, whereas the 64-bit crashes it with resulting error message.

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