How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

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lingyai
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How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by lingyai »

Hi,

I've got a project in MC8.5. Let's say I loop record so I get 10 takes of a vocal. Each vocal consist of 10 lyrical lines, or "swappable units" from a comping perspective.

I will start by listening to all 10 takes of line 1. I slice all 10 files at the end of line 1. Then, for the ones I want to Melodyne, one by one, I

-- select the 1-line clip
-- press Control+w to mix it in place to its own clip , so that I don't have to Melodyne the whole wav in the next step
-- activate Melodyne this one clip and tweak the pitch etc
-- again Control+w to mix it to its own clip, as a way to "print" the Melodyne changes, so that I don't need to keep Melodyne "live" on that clip; when you use Melodyne a lot of places, having it "live" in too many places can use a lot of PC resources, I believe. (I learned this the hard way once in the past by having a file with many “live” Melodyned edits get corrupted, costing me a lot of work .)

This is all a pretty standard workflow. When I finish auditioning a Line 1 clip, whether I Melodyne it or not, I make sure to Control + w it. I do this because the way slicing audio clips works in MC8, if I slice a clip into a segment, without then Control +w-ing it, that segment is always expandable, buy dragging one of its edges, to become the whole clip it originated from; in other words, I could drag from the right hand side and extend it from being just the clip of a take of line 1, into a long one with all lines, 1-10. I don't need that. So after I review any clip, whether I Melodyne it or not, I render it as its own clip.

Problem is, sometimes this will cause my MX8 project files sizes to become massive. If, for example, immediately after recording the 10 takes, but before any of this editing, the MX8 file size is 30 MB, it will, as I edit as I describe, grow by 1-2 MB every time I save something; and other times, for reasons I do not understand, it will double in size, and sometimes even, again, for reasons I don’t understand, will halve in size. Usually though it just grows. All I’m doing is slicing clips, sometimes Melodyning them, and rendering them. I'm not knowingly adding any new material.

It's getting out of hand. The 30 MB original file in my example has grown to around 350 MB! :shock: And I’m only a third of the way through the comping. Projects are taking a long time to save and program sometimes lags at these sizes.

Does anyone who has actually experienced this know what’s going on? How can I avoid this? I need to find a way to "print" a Melodyne-edited snippet because I use Melodyne all over the place. Perhaps some of my assumptions about efficiency-through-rendering are flawed. But I'd be grateful for advice here. There's no obvious reason for the file to grow so much. When I follow the workflow in Sonar, this doesn't happen :?:
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Acoustica Eric
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by Acoustica Eric »

Summary: He is saying that editing a clip in Melodyne, the mixing it to a new clip, causes the project file to grow by 1-2MB
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TrevsAudio
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by TrevsAudio »

Yes, I can confirm.

I ran this test on a completed project.

Un-altered project size - 1.4 mb
Added Melodyne to vocal and mixed to new track - 3.34 mb
Deleted new mixed track - 3.34 mb
Removed Melodyne from original track - 1.4 mb
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by Acoustica Greg »

Hi,

When you “bounce” a track, it makes a new wav file. Wav files can be large because they are uncompressed audio.


Greg
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lingyai
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by lingyai »

Acoustica Greg wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:21 am Hi,

When you “bounce” a track, it makes a new wav file. Wav files can be large because they are uncompressed audio.


Greg
Have you actually tried to replicate this? Take 2-3 tracks of audio, slice them in to bits, melodyne the bits and save the changes via control +W. I've taken great pains to explain what I have been doing. If I absolutely have to make a youtube video showing this I will but golly that would be a pain, for something you can so easily see for yourself, and which another user has confirmed.

I'd be grateful if you could actually do this simple thing yourself, it will then be plain as day, and as you care about the software, you might think, hey, here's how to fix / avoid this behaviour.

Also, you are only addressing one aspect of the behaviour. Sometimes it adds a few MB each time I control+W a melodyned clip; but other times wit will double the entire project size, from like 50 to 100 MB. Other times it will cut in half, or thereabouts. I have no clue what causes these changes.

But I bet someone who knows the details of how MC is programmed to behave in these cases might be able to shed some light.

When I change a snippet of a file in Melodyne and then control+W, that should *replace* the thing I changed, not *add* to it. The old version at any rate is no longer to be seen anywhere; yet its file size gets added to the existing project file size. Wherever this old version of audio is, it is hidden, and doing me no good at all, rather it penalises me with huge file sizes. I'm intending to overwrite, not to accumulate.

You seem to be saying this is how it is supposed to work.

The implication is, if someone, as in my example, does 10 takes of a vocal which they slice into 10 phrases, and they want to melodyne each one, they should not be using Mixcraft, because this is too onerous a task for it. It can only handle it by making monster file sizes. Right now, mine has grown to about 370 MB. This far exceeds the audio which I want to keep.

Or if I am doing something wrong, and Mixcraft is indeed up to the task, please help out and say what the correct way is. How *does* one go about melodyning many phrases? Are they supposed to *not* Control+W after making the melodyne edits, and so leave "live" melodyne in place on dozens of sliced clips? I've seen MC crash and corrupt in such cases (as well as Sonar); Melodyne is meant to be used and rendered, as far as I know.

Happy to be shown my assumptions are wrong and to be shown what's right.
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Acoustica Eric
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by Acoustica Eric »

lingyai
Can you reply to the support ticket so we can find it?
lingyai
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by lingyai »

Do I really have to send you a 375 mb file, which has some proprietary 3rd party content, for something you could replicate on a smaller scale in a few minutes?

Take two stems, slice, melodyne, render, you'll see it happen.

Is no one at Acoustyica interested in replicating this?

Or that failing, can you please just tell me what is supposed to happen? How are you supposed to use Melodyne on this scale without the file size growing?
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Acoustica Greg
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by Acoustica Greg »

Hi,

I can't get it to happen here.

Get it to happen again, then quit Mixcraft and send us your mixcraft-log.txt file.

To find the mixcraft-log file, highlight the following line and press Ctrl+C to copy it:

Code: Select all

%appdata%\Acoustica\Mixcraft\
Press the Windows Key+R to pop up the Run box in Windows. Click in the Run box and press Ctrl+V to paste in the line from above. Finally, click OK to go to the location of the mixcraft-log.txt file. Submit an Acoustica Support Request and attach the log file along with a brief description of the problem.


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Check out our tutorial videos on YouTube: Mixcraft 10 University 101
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by Acoustica Greg »

Also, how many slices? How long are the slices?
Mixcraft 8 slices
Mixcraft 8 slices
2023-06-05_115207.png (26.93 KiB) Viewed 5142 times
Mixcraft - The Musician's DAW
Check out our tutorial videos on YouTube: Mixcraft 10 University 101
lingyai
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Re: How to comp audio, ediiting it with Melodyne, without project files sizes ballooning?

Post by lingyai »

I'm moving this discussion to a similar thread, here https://forums.acoustica.com/viewtopic.php?t=29518
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