MIDI and tempo

[fredfish]

Hi all

If I open a MIDI file from the file menu everything is fine with regard to Mixcraft selecting the correct tempo embedded in the MIDI file.

If I open the MIDI file directly - either by associating my .mid files with Mixcraft or by right clicking on the MIDI file and selecting Open with and then selecting Mixcraft - then Mixcraft defaults to the standard 120 bpm irrespective of the temp contained within the MIDI file.

The same thing happens if I have Mixcraft open and then drag a MIDI file into Mixcraft.

Can I change this behaviour?

Cheers

John

[chibear]

Hi,

The only way I can think of would be to change the default project tempo (Preferences/Project) to what you will want before you import the MIDI file. I don't import MIDI files that often but when I do I usually set the tempo after to what I want. I may be wrong, but I don't think tempo is stored in the MIDI data.

[fredfish]

Thanks for the reply...

To be honest it isn't a huge issue for me - more of a query.

I think that the tempo data must be in the MIDI file somewhere because if I load the MIDI file by going file/open in Mixcraft and then select a MIDI file the tempo changes to the tempo of the MIDI file. It just doesn't do it if I launch the MIDI file in the other ways described.

[Vibrant Audio]

I looked into this. The problem you've described seems to be dependent on the individual MIDI file. In other words, when preferences are set to "Change Project Tempo And Key To Match First Sound", then adding a first sound which is a MIDI file will ALWAYS change the tempo and key for some some files, and NEVER change it for other files no matter what method you use to add the file. At least, that's how it worked for me.

It appears that Type 0 MIDI files (which are always single track) WILL change the tempo, while SOME Type 1 MIDI files (which allow multiple tracks) WILL NOT change the tempo.

Seems like a possible bug - I've logged it in a bug report.

Here's the resources I used to troubleshoot this:
Info on MIDI files -
http://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/midi.html

Free Hex Editor/Viewer (portable version) -
http://mh-nexus.de/en/downloads.php?product=HxD

And I've attached two MIDI files - one of each type.

[chibear]

Woa Hex....

I guess I've just been working with type 1 as all are imported as multiple tracks. BUT where is the tempo data stored?? I was looking for a CC# possibly? Also your Type 1 example has a track with apparently no data. was that for illustration purpose or is something hidden in there?

EDIT: Ha! my question was answered in this thread (sort of): https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... 9AboXHW0QE So, I guess I'll keep adjusting project tempo. WAY too geeky for me

[fredfish]

Vibrent thanks for checking into this.

The MIDI o file that you attached is at 120 bpm anyway - so I can tell if it is trying to change the tempo. Do you have a MIDI 0 file that isnt 120 bpm that I can try this with?

As I said this isnt a huge deal for me but now I am even more curious.

Cheers

John

[Vibrant Audio]

chibear - there's notes in the file when I load it here.

fredfish - I use a default project tempo of 110. Can you temporarily change to 110 in your preferences?

Also, I created a new project with 4 virtual tracks. I changed the tempo to 90. I put in a clip and some notes on one track. I saved as a MIDI file (Mixcraft only saves MIDI as Type 1). I closed Mixcraft, then dragged the newly created MIDI file into Mixcraft. The project stayed at the default tempo of 110. There were 4 clips opened. One with the notes I had entered. Three more with no notes.

[fredfish]

Hi Vibrant - I did what you suggested and as a result I was able to confirm that the MIDI 0 file does indeed change the tempo when loaded into Mixcraft (not that I doubted you! ).

I also tried your experiment and exactly the same results. So it would appear that at the moment (and I am using 209) if I want to have the MIDI file open with the correct tempo I will have to go to file/open and select the file that way.

Thanks for the heads up on MIDI 0 vs MIDI 1

[Vibrant Audio]

We'll see what Acoustica Dan can do with it. I'm pretty sure Mixcraft is just not reading the right info from the file header for Type 1 files.

I think this is a good bug catch!

[Acoustica Dan]

Hi guys,

I looked at the files and here's what I found. The Type 0 file does not have any tempo information in it. Now, according to the MIDI file specification, MIDI files without tempo information default to 120.0 bpm. My guess is that this file does not have any tempo information in it because the project was at 120.0 bpm, and whatever software created this project decided not to embed tempo information since the file was using the default tempo.

At any rate, in this case Mixcraft does not explicitly set the tempo to 120.0, which is a mistake that I have corrected for the next release. For 99% of users this is fine, but if you've adjusted your default project tempo in the preferences, then a MIDI file without tempo will be at whatever your default tempo is, instead of 120.0 bpm. As I said, that's fixed for future versions.

My advice would be to find a Type 0 file at a tempo other than 120.0 bpm and let us know if Mixcraft stilll has trouble loading that file.

Thanks!
Dan

[fredfish]

Hi Dan

Thanks for getting back. That is pretty much what I was saying in my original post.

My curiosity is roused though because you say that the tempo info isn't contained in the MIDI file. BUT if I load a MIDI file through the file / open menu and select the MIDI file the tempo is changed to the tempo of the MIDI file. It is only if I drag and drop the MIDI file into Mixcraft or launch the MIDI by right clicking on the file and selecting "open with mixcraft" option that the tempo data doesn't get loaded.

[fredfish]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words - perhaps a video is worth 1001!

I have uploaded a video of what I am talking about here http://youtu.be/JTROimlNXAE

In the video:-
To begin with I have launched the MIDI in VanBrascos Karaoke player to show the tempo of the MIDI (in this case 109 BPM).

Then I launched the MIDI by right clicking the MIDI and selecting open with Mixcraft. You will see that the BPM stays at my default - in my case I have the default BPM set to 90 BPM - and in addition the time sig stays at 4/4.

Finally I launch the MIDI directly in Mixcraft and Mixcraft detects both the BPM and the time sig (it does get the BPM 1 out).

I hope this explained clearly what I mean.

Cheers

John

[Acoustica Dan]

Hi Fredfish,

It is only if I drag and drop the MIDI file into Mixcraft or launch the MIDI by right clicking on the file and selecting "open with mixcraft" option that the tempo data doesn't get loaded.

I confess I got distracted by Vibrant Audio's talk of Type 0 and Type 1 files, and missed your original point about loading MIDI files directly. Apologies for the distraction. There are two situations here:

1) Loading a MIDI project file via right-clicking on the file in Windows: You're absolutely correct, and this has been fixed for the next update of Mixcraft. Unfortunately we just released b209 so it may take a little while to get this fix out to you. If you send me a PM (Private Message), I can send you a test version that you can try out to verify the fix.

2) Dragging a MIDI file into an existing project: In Mixcraft, dragging a MIDI file into a project will not change the tempo/key/time signature/etc. of the project. This is because doing so could be very disruptive. If you have a project set to a specific tempo, loading a MIDI file and adding the tempo changes etc. could screw up the entire project by littering it with tempo changes, key changes, time signature changes, etc., none of which are desired in the actual song. So, in Mixcraft, you need to open a MIDI file as a Project (via File->Open Project) in order for Mixcraft to load all the tempo, key, and time signature information in the file.

Thanks,
Dan

[Acoustica Dan]

For what it's worth, we'll be releasing a new build this week to resolve a mistake made with the control surface feature.. so the fixes described above will indeed be available this week.

Thanks,
Dan

[Vibrant Audio]

I got distracted by Vibrant Audio's talk of Type 0 and Type 1 files

It's not you, it's me. I sometimes have that effect on people.

Dragging a MIDI file into an existing project: In Mixcraft, dragging a MIDI file into a project will not change the tempo/key/time signature/etc. of the project. This is because doing so could be very disruptive.

Just for clarification, if it's the first sound in a new project and there is tempo data present in the clip then Mixcraft WILL ask to change if preferences are set up to ask. Right?

Also, I see tempo data in the Type 0 file of 0x0060. Is that correct?